European Super League

[Sweep]

I will say, right from the start that I know very little about this and I would be genuinely grateful if someone would explain to me why everyone is so vehemently opposed to the formation of the European Super League.
As I understand it and according to the papers the “big 6” joining will still play in the Premier League (not sure how that will work, time wise), still put money into the lower leagues, but just play mid week against other super league clubs? So is this just a very radical revamp of the Champions League (which UEFA we revamping anyway)?
Why is this so bad for fans as is being shouted from the rooftops?
We have UEFA actually saying it’s the end of football forever! Players of these clubs banned from the Euros and World Cup. The PM saying it must be stopped. Gary Neville calling for his own club to be relegated. Every “proper” fan saying it’s terrible - and yet when I have asked them, they don’t seem to know why, other than away matches will be expensive (just like now in the CL).
Sky seem quite big on the greed aspect (which is a bit rich - pardon the pun) and I can understand why they and UEFA / FIFA are upset (they have been greedy too though) but this has been touted for years and was obviously going to happen sooner or later, wasn’t it?
So what am I missing?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The crux of this is that the new league will be a closed shop, no promotion or relegation. Those in the league will receive huge amounts of money over and above what other clubs will receive.

Promotion and relegation is a key part of a league system and to lose that is huge.

The additional money will widen the gap between already wealthy clubs and other clubs. Bigger the gap, the more uncompetitive and predictable the sport becomes.

These are the two key points as I see them

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I will say, right from the start that I know very little about this and I would be genuinely grateful if someone would explain to me why everyone is so vehemently opposed to the formation of the European Super League.
As I understand it and according to the papers the “big 6” joining will still play in the Premier League (not sure how that will work, time wise), still put money into the lower leagues, but just play mid week against other super league clubs? So is this just a very radical revamp of the Champions League (which UEFA we revamping anyway)?
Why is this so bad for fans as is being shouted from the rooftops?
We have UEFA actually saying it’s the end of football forever! Players of these clubs banned from the Euros and World Cup. The PM saying it must be stopped. Gary Neville calling for his own club to be relegated. Every “proper” fan saying it’s terrible - and yet when I have asked them, they don’t seem to know why, other than away matches will be expensive (just like now in the CL).
Sky seem quite big on the greed aspect (which is a bit rich - pardon the pun) and I can understand why they and UEFA / FIFA are upset (they have been greedy too though) but this has been touted for years and was obviously going to happen sooner or later, wasn’t it?
So what am I missing?

The bit in bold, that’s the Clubs which have agreed/want to create the Super League have said! What about the feelings/thoughts of every other Club in the Leagues involved around Europe, it’s not their role to decide how the PL should operate and who should or should not be invited in.

Talking the “Big 6” only, they believe they should play in the PL, the Super League, expect to play in the CL and to do that they will have to play lesser players or completely withdraw from the Carabao Cup or FA Cup, again changing the rules they are currently signed up to.

The only people who will benefit will be the Owners of the Clubs and as for helping everyone else out, what have any of the PL Clubs done for teams like Bury, Bolton or Wigan in recent years.

 

[Blue in Munich]

As I understand it, the "Big 6" intend to join & still fulfil their commitment to the Premier League, and presumably the domestic cups; they will be waving a fond farewell to the Champions League, or sticking two fingers up to UEFA, depending on your point of view.

This was announced the day before UEFA were due to release plans to up the Champions League to 36 participants and increase the number of games by 100 per season, making a shedload of money for themselves in the process.

The Premier League's product will be devalued overnight if they leave, as those leaving represent the biggest draw to the Far Eastern markets, so they will not wish to lose that revenue stream, but at the same time they do not want teams dictating the terms & conditions of their league to them.

The Champions League will be similarly devalued as most of their history will disappear overnight.

The "Big 6" appear to have been promised a guaranteed revenue stream far in excess of their current one so have no issue with that as they won't lose financially.

The match going fans, whom Covid has proved are an unnecessary inconvenience, do not want it as they see the kudos in winning the current trophies, and have no interest in winning the Harlem Globetrotters League, but have little or no say in the matter.

The threats have started; players in the ESL will be banned from representing their country, which might leave FIFA in a pickle looking at World Cup rights; certain other members of the Premier League have demanded the immediate expulsion of the "Big 6", conveniently saving existing teams from relegation & promoting those with no hope into the Champions League (not that it's about the money of course )

Pick the bones out of that.

 

[Hobbit]

My concern is that the Prem gets treated like the Carabao and FA Cup by the Big 6. Don't forget, if this does take off there'll be the current champion's league and this super league, and then the Prem, FA Cup and the Carabao Cup. Something will be dismissed by those clubs but what will it be?

I barely bother watching the league cup now, and could end up doing the same with the FA Cup. If the Prem gets diluted too...

Remember Packer's cricket circus? If this plan is treated the same way, who knows what will happen.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The bit in bold, that’s the Clubs which have agreed/want to create the Super League have said! What about the feelings/thoughts of every other Club in the Leagues involved around Europe, it’s not their role to decide how the PL should operate and who should or should not be invited in.

Talking the “Big 6” only, they believe they should play in the PL, the Super League, expect to play in the CL and to do that they will have to play lesser players or completely withdraw from the Carabao Cup or FA Cup, again changing the rules they are currently signed up to.

The only people who will benefit will be the Owners of the Clubs and as for helping everyone else out, what have any of the PL Clubs done for teams like Bury, Bolton or Wigan in recent years.

Have I misread it Paul; I'd come to the conclusion that they were playing ESL instead of, not as well as Champions League? If they are playing both, then they won't dilute the Premier League team, but the League Cup & FA Cup will become the province of the youth teams, which is a shame and an insult to the history of the competition.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Dowden thinks that football is nothing without the fans...has he not spotted that EPL football has been on TV for many months with no fans in the stadium yet no doubt a huge global TV audience and especially in China and SE Asia - as the owners of the club will have noted.

 

[CliveW]

I cannot believe that this has taken up the first 10 minutes of the BBC national/international news!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Have I misread it Paul; I'd come to the conclusion that they were playing ESL instead of, not as well as Champions League? If they are playing both, then they won't dilute the Premier League team, but the League Cup 7 FA Cup will become the province of the youth teams, which is a shame and an insult to the history of the competition.

UEFA Rules currently state the winners of the PL plus the other scenarios go in to the CL, if one of the big 6 win the PL they cannot give up their place to a team lower down the League and we therefore have no rep, but again it’s not UEFA or PL saying how it will work in the future, it’s the big 6 believing they can dictate the terms.

So currently if City won the PL next year, they would be entered in to the CL as our Winners and play in the ESL.?‍

 

[2blue]

My concern is that the Prem gets treated like the Carabao and FA Cup by the Big 6. Don't forget, if this does take off there'll be the current champion's league and this super league, and then the Prem, FA Cup and the Carabao Cup. Something will be dismissed by those clubs but what will it be?

I barely bother watching the league cup now, and could end up doing the same with the FA Cup. If the Prem gets diluted too...

Remember Packer's cricket circus? If this plan is treated the same way, who knows what will happen.

Also...... Laver excluded from Wimbledon etc because he went Pro. Snooker & darts taken to another dimension. Whilst not exact parallels it's clear to me that football at the top level is currently rather 'stagnant
As a football watcher rather than a fan, other than the 2Blues, I'd really look forward to watching Europes top teams go head to head.

 

[Sweep]

In regard to relegation, realistically none of these teams would be relegated now, especially these days when money talks so loudly. Gone are the days when Man U went into Div 1.
I do get though that it’s hard to swallow guarantees for some teams and not others. I guess they had to give some guarantees to encourage the big teams to take the risk?
As I understand it, there will be promotion to the ESL?

 

[Blue in Munich]

In regard to relegation, realistically none of these teams would be relegated now, especially these days when money talks so loudly. Gone are the days when Man U went into Div 1.
I do get though that it’s hard to swallow guarantees for some teams and not others. I guess they had to give some guarantees to encourage the big teams to take the risk?
As I understand it, there will be promotion to the ESL?

I believe 5 teams per season can be introduced on merit, but the founding 15 are safe for life, or at least until the rules change...

 

[Reemul]

I believe 5 teams per season can be introduced on merit, but the founding 15 are safe for life, or at least until the rules change...

5 teams per season form the whole of Europe could get in, not likely to be any from the premier league when we have 6 already in

 

[ColchesterFC]

I believe 5 teams per season can be introduced on merit, but the founding 15 are safe for life, or at least until the rules change...

Which is fine, unless the PL (and other national leagues), FIFA and UEFA stick to their guns and any team joining the new ESL is banned from all other competitions. Are any teams going to potentially risk being expelled from their home league and have their players banned from international football for a one season shot at the new league with no guarantees after that one year?

What happens if Roma (as an example) qualify to join the ESL? If they take up that option and get expelled from Serie A and then in the following season get relegated from the ESL they now have no league to play in. Yes it might seem like a good idea to earn £300 million for a season in the ESL but not if they then have to apply to re-join the Italian leagues at the lowest level and work their way back up. The loss of earnings for the years needed to get back to the top level would dwarf the one season earnings from the ESL.

 

[Sweep]

It’s going to be messy (and not the player ?). If the national leagues stick to their guns they will lose their biggest teams. Worse off will be the PL. without the 6 it will be like the SPL (all due respect to everyone) which will just make the ESL more attractive. Will they ban them to protect UEFA?
Big risks on all sides.

 

[ColchesterFC]

It’s going to be messy (and not the player ?). If the national leagues stick to their guns they will lose their biggest teams. Worse off will be the PL. without the 6 it will be like the SPL (all due respect to everyone) which will just make the ESL more attractive. Will they ban them to protect UEFA?
Big risks on all sides.

Surely without the big 6 the PL will actually become a more interesting competition. Definitely not better quality but almost certainly more interesting with many more clubs able to challenge for and win the league each year. The SPL has been a one club league for the last 8 or 9 years and that has only changed in this past season. Get rid of the big 6 and the PL is far from a one or two club league, it becomes far more competitive.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’s going to be messy (and not the player ?). If the national leagues stick to their guns they will lose their biggest teams. Worse off will be the PL. without the 6 it will be like the SPL (all due respect to everyone) which will just make the ESL more attractive. Will they ban them to protect UEFA?
Big risks on all sides.

How can they make the ESL more attractive? Have a read of Post #14 above, why would you want to play in a League were you could finish above another Club and you get relegated instead of them?

Then have nowhere to go back to as you’ve given up your own League.?‍

 

[ColchesterFC]

How can they make the ESL more attractive? Have a read of Post #14 above, why would you want to play in a League were you could finish above another Club and you get relegated instead of them?

Then have nowhere to go back to as you’ve given up your own League.?‍

As a neutral I think post #14 was quite excellent.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Surely without the big 6 the PL will actually become a more interesting competition. Definitely not better quality but almost certainly more interesting with many more clubs able to challenge for and win the league each year. The SPL has been a one club league for the last 8 or 9 years and that has only changed in this past season. Get rid of the big 6 and the PL is far from a one or two club league, it becomes far more competitive.

All my years watching football - Liverpool , Man Utd , Spurs and Arsenal have always been in the top league and then in recent years City and Chelsea - 5 of them have won every title since 86/87 I think bar one season which Leicester won

If those clubs were expelled then It would be competitive for one maybe two seasons but then a couple of teams with more financial backing would step up and dominate

A lot of it is unimaginable on how the landscape would be without those clubs - I suspect no fans want all this to happen

 

[Deleted member 16999]

All my years watching football - Liverpool , Man Utd , Spurs and Arsenal have always been in the top league and then in recent years City and Chelsea - 5 of them have won every title since 86/87 I think bar one season which Leicester won

If those clubs were expelled then It would be competitive for one maybe two seasons but then a couple of teams with more financial backing would step up and dominate

A lot of it is unimaginable on how the landscape would be without those clubs - I suspect no fans want all this to happen

Everton won it in 86/87. Oops ??