European Super League

[RichA]

IF it goes ahead and the big clubs all become global franchises, which some of them frankly already are, it might even be good for domestic football.
"Real" football supporters might go back to supporting their local team.
The footballers who love football more than money and are happy to play for a mere £5k a week will stay.
The Blackburns, Villas and maybe even Forests may rise again.
I just feel sorry for the genuine supporters of the Manchester, London and Liverpool teams who are actual locals.

 

[road2ruin]

I wonder whether this plan was released in the knowledge that it would be roundly rejected and the resulting compromise is the ultimate goal. That said it does feel an extreme way of going about it if that is the case!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I wonder whether this plan was released in the knowledge that it would be roundly rejected and the resulting compromise is the ultimate goal. That said it does feel an extreme way of going about it if that is the case!!

That is the usual routine but this time the breakaway clubs seem to have seriously misjudged the mood and the proposal.

 

[RichA]

I'm always similarly cynical of extreme opening gambits, but the people in charge of the big football clubs have more of a background in generating cash flow than getting the best for communities and real football supporters.
The big clubs don't really generate significant revenue from season tickets, but they still inflate the prices to the maximum that the market will tolerate.
Easy to forget that this isn't unprecedented.
From the Wikipedia entry for the Premier League...
"The competition was founded as the FA Premier League on 20 February 1992 following the decision of clubs in the Football League First Division to break away from the Football League, founded in 1888, and take advantage of a lucrative television rights deal."

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Surely without the big 6 the PL will actually become a more interesting competition. Definitely not better quality but almost certainly more interesting with many more clubs able to challenge for and win the league each year. The SPL has been a one club league for the last 8 or 9 years and that has only changed in this past season. Get rid of the big 6 and the PL is far from a one or two club league, it becomes far more competitive.

Welcome to the world of Scottish football.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Where's the money coming from?

Mainly from an American bank.
Someone said that Barcelona are £1billion in debt.
Bankers make most of their money from people who are in debt.

 

[road2ruin]

That is the usual routine but this time the breakaway clubs seem to have seriously misjudged the mood and the proposal.

I'm not sure they have misjudged the mood, I'm more of the mind that they just don't care, the quote about 'legacy fans' vs 'future fans' pretty much proved that. They are looking at the emerging football markets where they will be targetting this, not the fans in the traditoinal markets. Prepare yourself for ridiculous game times to suit certain time zones!

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Mainly from an American bank.
Someone said that Barcelona are £1billion in debt.
Bankers make most of their money from people who are in debt.

Real Madrid also in massive debt and can't expect Spanish government to bail them out as they kept doing in the past.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Loving the way Sky’s statement last night tried to exonerate themselves of any blame for this, and they have had no involvement. I cannot believe that if it involves selling TV rights that Sky aren’t somehow involved.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I wonder whether this plan was released in the knowledge that it would be roundly rejected and the resulting compromise is the ultimate goal. That said it does feel an extreme way of going about it if that is the case!!

That’s what normally happens every time UEFA want to do some changes and I believe it was all about that but I’m very worried right now , it’s hard to comprehend- not one single fan wants this 99.9% of the players don’t want it

I don’t want to see Liverpool just play the big teams each week - that’s not how I was brought up on football - those big games were earned by qualifying for the big comps - no team has a right just to be given the spot

Amongst all this are UEFAs proposed changes for the CL - extra games , going to impact the domestic cups. It would also mean that for example that if Liverpool didn’t qualify for CL they would be given a spot anyway - it’s all wrong

 

[Billysboots]

http://European Super League created to 'save football' - Real Madrid president Florentino Perez

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56812151

For “save football” read “save Real Madrid” and the five other non-English teams which have signed this proposal.

Make no mistake, the powers that be at the big Italian and Spanish clubs have seen the success of the Premier League and the revenue it generates, and all want a slice of the pie in order to dig themselves out of gigantic financial holes. This has nothing to do with saving football in general, and is all about generating cash for the likes of Real and Barcelona, both of whom are in the mire. Why else would the founder clubs be given protected status?

If Perez is concerned about a lack of viewing fans at the moment, this has either not been thought through at all, or else is a cynical attempt to tap into the global streaming market. I think we all know which. But how long before we all get bored watching the same teams play each other year after year? There will be no variety whatsoever, no opportunity for a smaller club to “do a Leicester City” - it will very soon become a monotonous bore fest. Games will soon be played in half empty stadia and, whilst I acknowledge that there is far more to generating revenue than ticket sales, the lack of atmosphere will turn armchair fans off, just as it has done during the pandemic. Football needs packed grounds. It needs local fans to go to games.

I think the key to this is likely to be player reaction. In the event English clubs are expelled from the Premier League, FA and League Cups, and their players are barred from international football, how many will want to play in the ESL? They’re already rich beyond their wildest dreams so it’s not all down to money. Take Donny Van De Beek as an example. Barely gets a kick at Old Trafford but because of his affiliation to the club his footballing career will be dead in the water overnight unless he moves to a club outside the ESL. How many more like him are there?

If the opposition within the game is as fierce as it is outside, then I fail to see how this can ever get off the ground.

 

[Billysboots]

Loving the way Sky’s statement last night tried to exonerate themselves of any blame for this, and they have had no involvement. I cannot believe that if it involves selling TV rights that Sky aren’t somehow involved.

The list of proposed broadcasters I’ve seen includes the likes of Amazon and other premium internet based providers - Sky weren’t on it.

 

[road2ruin]

That’s what normally happens every time UEFA want to do some changes and I believe it was all about that but I’m very worried right now , it’s hard to comprehend- not one single fan wants this 99.9% of the players don’t want it

I don’t want to see Liverpool just play the big teams each week - that’s not how I was brought up on football - those big games were earned by qualifying for the big comps - no team has a right just to be given the spot

Amongst all this are UEFAs proposed changes for the CL - extra games , going to impact the domestic cups. It would also mean that for example that if Liverpool didn’t qualify for CL they would be given a spot anyway - it’s all wrong

Again, it just boils down to which markets they are targetting this new competition at. The 'legacy fans', those brought up on proper competition, relegation and failure, watching big teams getting dumped out of cup competitions are not the target market, they aren't interested in us and they've obviously done the maths and feel that they can afford to lose a % of those who refuse to watch the new format. What they're after, the 'future fans' are those who like the US model where there is no relegation and that the games are big, Man U vs Barca, Liverpool vs Real etc etc. These will come from the Middle East and Asia i'd imagine and selling the rights to those games will probably dwarf the figures that Sky have been earning. Regardless of what we think about the owners of the 12 we know that they are not stupid especially when it comes to money.

 

[Billysboots]

Again, it just boils down to which markets they are targetting this new competition at. The 'legacy fans', those brought up on proper competition, relegation and failure, watching big teams getting dumped out of cup competitions are not the target market, they aren't interested in us and they've obviously done the maths and feel that they can afford to lose a % of those who refuse to watch the new format. What they're after, the 'future fans' are those who like the US model where there is no relegation and that the games are big, Man U vs Barca, Liverpool vs Real etc etc. These will come from the Middle East and Asia i'd imagine and selling the rights to those games will probably dwarf the figures that Sky have been earning. Regardless of what we think about the owners of the 12 we know that they are no stupid especially when it comes to money.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[road2ruin]

For “save football” read “save Real Madrid” and the five other non-English teams which have signed this proposal.

Make no mistake, the powers that be at the big Italian and Spanish clubs have seen the success of the Premier League and the revenue it generates, and all want a slice of the pie in order to dig themselves out of gigantic financial holes. This has nothing to do with saving football in general, and is all about generating cash for the likes of Real and Barcelona, both of whom are in the mire.

Real - £900m in debt
Barca - £1bn in debt

I cannot see how the ESL would benefit them?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure they have misjudged the mood, I'm more of the mind that they just don't care, the quote about 'legacy fans' vs 'future fans' pretty much proved that. They are looking at the emerging football markets where they will be targetting this, not the fans in the traditoinal markets. Prepare yourself for ridiculous game times to suit certain time zones!

I don't think they ever care about the mood of the fans. I was thinking more this time of the mood of the domestic leagues, UEFA and FIFA. The threats of expulsion, removal of players from major tournaments etc is bigger than I have seen before. Now, they still may not care about that but surely the players will. Who doesn't want to play at a World Cup, Euro's etc? Equally, will clubs like the idea of being kicked out of their domestic leagues?

How much is posturing I don't know, there is a big game of poker going on right now and there are some very big players at the table. I know I'd be no good at this

 

[Ethan]

This is being presented as a morality play, future of the game, all that stuff. I think that takes an awfully rose-coloured view of the current game. It is all about the money and power already. I can't see how one group wanting more of the money is more morally superior to another group wanting it. Fans shouting at the Liverpool team bus is ridiculous. Does anyone really think these fans won't come to Anfield to see Liverpool play Real or Juve?

If I understand it correctly, the Premier League, La Liga, Seria A and, if they join, Bundesliega will continue. The FA Cup, Papa Johns Cup, Copa del Rey etc will be the main victims. I am not really very concerned about those. Promotion and relegation to the PL etc will continue. The UCL was already being re-engineered to allow more reliable access to the top teams, and the ESL takes that a step or two further.

I assume that what will happen is that UEFA will look at their UCL proposal again and amend it further in the direction of the ESL plan and offer more of the TV money to the qualifying clubs.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As happens every time something like this comes along a compromise will be reached which, as is also fairly commonplace, will please no one. But life will go on.

Not always...but that was another time and another rather more political topic ?

My feeling is that the ESL group is not bluffing - that this is an opening gambit for a slightly less significant change that will be welcomed by fans because it is not as bad as it could be - but in truth will deliver much if not most of what the group of clubs want. But if the football ‘authorities‘ do not budge the ESL will happen.

 

[Orikoru]

I'm not sure they have misjudged the mood, I'm more of the mind that they just don't care, the quote about 'legacy fans' vs 'future fans' pretty much proved that. They are looking at the emerging football markets where they will be targetting this, not the fans in the traditoinal markets. Prepare yourself for ridiculous game times to suit certain time zones!

The word 'fan' doesn't mean the same to a chairman as it does to us. We see 'fan' as someone who has followed a team through thick and thin. They see 'fan' as a dollar sign. Interchangeable, and it doesn't matter who. A fan to them is anyone who'll stump up the dollar, whether they're in London, or Shanghai, or Doha.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If players are being honest and are really against this I'm sure a half decent employment lawyer could get them out of the contract.

If FIFA/UEFA ban players from international football then perhaps restriction of trade as player contracts will allow them to play for their national team?