England

[chrisd]

I heard comments on radio 5 live yesterday but can't remember by who. In Germany and the Netherlands their national sides are considered THE most important football in those countries, the nation FA's, over recent years and after earlier failures, dictate to the league clubs the style of football that the coaches at national level planned to adopt and that league teams should do too so that all players are schooled in a way that that benefits them at the top level

In England the PL is too powerful and the FA is almost dictated to by the PL and no such system would work, probably not least, because most of the top teams providing the players are run by non English coaches whose interest doesn't lie with helping the national team as any sort of priority.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I heard comments on radio 5 live yesterday but can't remember by who. In Germany and the Netherlands their national sides are considered THE most important football in those countries, the nation FA's, over recent years and after earlier failures, dictate to the league clubs the style of football that the coaches at national level planned to adopt and that league teams should do too so that all players are schooled in a way that that benefits them at the top level

In England the PL is too powerful and the FA is almost dictated to by the PL and no such system would work, probably not least, because most of the top teams providing the players are run by non English coaches whose interest doesn't lie with helping the national team as any sort of priority.

I think this is the crux of the problem. All of football should revolve around the national team, as it does in Rugby and Cricket for example. Somewhere along the line, that has changed in England and until it reverts back, nothing will ever change

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think this is the crux of the problem. All of football should revolve around the national team, as it does in Rugby and Cricket for example. Somewhere along the line, that has changed in England and until it reverts back, nothing will ever change

I cant ever remember football ever revolving around the national team and nor should it ever do that in this country.

Never should the sport revolve around a team based in one city whilst there are hundreds of professional clubs

The set up is totally different to both cricket and rugby

England arent poor because of club football - England are poor because of failings in coaching before players get to clubs.

And i bet the German FA doesnt dictate to Barce what style they play or to Dortmund because both teams play a different style- what i heard on Radio was that both the German and Dutch and Spanish have all the national teams play the same style and formation from under 15 through to full national.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I cant ever remember football ever revolving around the national team and nor should it ever do that in this country.

Never should the sport revolve around a team based in one city whilst there are hundreds of professional clubs

The set up is totally different to both cricket and rugby

England arent poor because of club football - England are poor because of failings in coaching before players get to clubs.

And i bet the German FA doesnt dictate to Barce what style they play or to Dortmund because both teams play a different style- what i heard on Radio was that both the German and Dutch and Spanish have all the national teams play the same style and formation from under 15 through to full national.

I disagree and think that the pinnacle of any playing career is to guide your country to a major tournament. Thats exactly what Germany and Spain do, looking to peak at the WC and EC. However the major difference is that their associations work in conjunction with clubs and the league in a more unified way and they have the blueprint in place for youth development and club and country level already in place. As you said yourself elsewhere, Germany took a risk and played their youngsters last time out accepting they'd fail but would be stronger and better for it. Look at them now, already growing into a young and competitive side with at least the next EC and WC together

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I cant ever remember football ever revolving around the national team and nor should it ever do that in this country.

Never should the sport revolve around a team based in one city whilst there are hundreds of professional clubs

The set up is totally different to both cricket and rugby

England arent poor because of club football - England are poor because of failings in coaching before players get to clubs.

And i bet the German FA doesnt dictate to Barce what style they play or to Dortmund because both teams play a different style- what i heard on Radio was that both the German and Dutch and Spanish have all the national teams play the same style and formation from under 15 through to full national.

You mean like Rugby does with Twickenham?

This isn't about where you live (and therefore, hard though it may be to be believe, it isn't about you), it's about the national team. Playing for your country should be the pinnacle of your career, it used to be, now it isn't. Why is it that smaller teams with less resources can perform with more spirit than England? I mean, are you telling me Iran and Cameroon who in the last couple of days have shown more passion and team spirit against 2 of the tournament favourites than I have seen from an England team in 20 years have better coaching than England?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You mean like Rugby does with Twickenham?

This isn't about where you live (and therefore, hard though it may be to be believe, it isn't about you), it's about the national team. Playing for your country should be the pinnacle of your career, it used to be, now it isn't. Why is it that smaller teams with less resources can perform with more spirit than England? I mean, are you telling me Iran and Cameroon who in the last couple of days have shown more passion and team spirit against 2 of the tournament favourites than I have seen from an England team in 20 years have better coaching than England?

Think you can add Algeria to that list too

 

[MadAdey]

It still comes down to one thing IMO and I have said it many times before. Stop making kids play on full size pitches with full sized goals at such a young age as all they are learning is the long ball game. I have watched kids that are probably 13/14 playing a match in Ibiza before. They played on a small pitch with small goals like we do at u9's and u10's, it is no wonder other countries develop players who know how to pass and find space and work with the ball in confined areas. A lot of countries from what I have read play on reduced pitches with smaller goals up until they are about 14, to make the players learn technical skills from an early age.

 

[Jack_bfc]

I thought we did.

 

[2blue]

It still comes down to one thing IMO and I have said it many times before. Stop making kids play on full size pitches with full sized goals at such a young age as all they are learning is the long ball game. I have watched kids that are probably 13/14 playing a match in Ibiza before. They played on a small pitch with small goals like we do at u9's and u10's, it is no wonder other countries develop players who know how to pass and find space and work with the ball in confined areas. A lot of countries from what I have read play on reduced pitches with smaller goals up until they are about 14, to make the players learn technical skills from an early age.

But that is happening nowadays, tho' not to 14. Still it's won't address the passion & pride for country that everyone is harping on about, that will only be addressed when folk feel a real sense of bonding to the Nation.... I personally have to walk out during the singing of 'Queenie's Song' as it's such an embarrassment to see people so detached from it but yet required to go through the durable procedure....... in stead just look at the Yanks pride in their TRULEY National Song.... also look at the words and sentiments.... a world apart, no wonder there are some who weep

Never minds the individuals you have mentioned (I agree btw),but hasn't this being getting said for 20 years now - "Bring the kids in, build for the next tournament" - When are they going to be ready, then?

Nice words 2blue BTW, I could hear the Wurlitzer in the background.

I'm all for 'You'll never walk alone' as England's new National Song. Has more feeling.... &..... meaning

 

[Snelly]

I cant ever remember football ever revolving around the national team and nor should it ever do that in this country.

Why not?

I think it would be very easy to do. Salary cap (as in rugby union) for the Premier League. Then adopt the central contracts idea from cricket and make the salary for the nationally contracted players three times the cap. Job done. Pinnacle of financial achievement (which it would seem is the main driver for our pampered proles) would come from national recognition and representing England.

Can't happen though. Football in this country is corrupt, self-serving and a moral vacuum. A genuine opiate for the masses. Unrecoverable I would say. Too many simpletons at every level in football from fan to Premier League CEO.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because you would have to adopt that system world wide

In cricket and rugby and even hockey when England contract players they don't play for their clubs regulary - they are with England day on day out training - rugby etc can cope with internationals being away because the amount of international teams playing is vastly smaller than in football - that's why the players get more money from their country

To do that in football teams would lose most of their players especially from the top two divisions - because there are hundreds of countries playing international football. That's why club teams around the world don't play when internationals are on. The FA hardly pay the players as it is now.

Football in this country is no different than others - in fact it's prob less corrupt here than in many other counties in Europe.

Football cannot be compared to other sports like rugby - it's not a workable model in any country.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think the fact that the manager had to order his English players to sing the British national anthem speaks volumes.

They really did look a sorry miserable bunch when the anthem [the wrong one] was played. No passion, no pride.

 

[chrisd]

I think the fact that the manager had to order his English players to sing the British national anthem speaks volumes.

They really did look a sorry miserable bunch when the anthem [the wrong one] was played. No passion, no pride.

Trouble is that there aren't many songs that could replace the National Anthem. 2 Blue suggested "you'll never walk alone" well that's a non starter immediately.

I frankly wouldn't care if they sung "My old mans a dustman" I don't see that having any bearing on the way we play. We are, and have been for years, miles behind the rest of the world in technique, skills and endeavour, and until we stop chopping and changing managers, play a form of football right through all our national squads and only pick those willing to die for their country we will, sadly, be going back over this issue after the Euros and subsequent World Cups.

 

[MadAdey]

Forget all this crap about pride and singing anthems. Scottish players always sing 'flower of Scotland' at the top of their voices and they still loose. Our problem is that our players just do not have the technical abilities that foreign players do, that is why our top clubs use them, instead of English players in positions that require those skills. Look at this list of players that I think are the ones that have the ability to work in tight spaces and dribble past players, not just use power and pace.

Man City: Silva & Nasri
L'pool: Couthino & Suarez
Chelsea: Oscar & Hazard
Arsenal: Cazorla & Ozil

please prove me wrong and tell me of one English player that can regularly pick the ball up in a tight position surrounded by players and still come ou the other side with the ball. We looked good for the first half and hour or so against Italy when they where pushing forward and allowing us to use our power and pace, but as soon as they dropped back and tightened things up it was a different story.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Forget all this crap about pride and singing anthems. Scottish players always sing 'flower of Scotland' at the top of their voices and they still loose.

Jeez you are living in the past

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Don't really care what they sing. Unless their entering Eurovision it's their ability to score more goals than their opponents that counts. The FA would never be seen to banish the national anthem so its academic.

 

[Liverbirdie]

But that is happening nowadays, tho' not to 14. Still it's won't address the passion & pride for country that everyone is harping on about, that will only be addressed when folk feel a real sense of bonding to the Nation.... I personally have to walk out during the singing of 'Queenie's Song' as it's such an embarrassment to see people so detached from it but yet required to go through the durable procedure....... in stead just look at the Yanks pride in their TRULEY National Song.... also look at the words and sentiments.... a world apart, no wonder there are some who weep



I'm all for 'You'll never walk alone' as England's new National Song. Has more feeling.... &..... meaning

Hands off, it's ours!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Can you just imagine England v Germany at Wembley and an anthem with 80,000 fans singing YNWA.
That would be magic.

 

[Dodger]

Forget all this crap about pride and singing anthems. Scottish players always sing 'flower of Scotland' at the top of their voices and they still loose. Our problem is that our players just do not have the technical abilities that foreign players do, that is why our top clubs use them, instead of English players in positions that require those skills. Look at this list of players that I think are the ones that have the ability to work in tight spaces and dribble past players, not just use power and pace.

Man City: Silva & Nasri
L'pool: Couthino & Suarez
Chelsea: Oscar & Hazard
Arsenal: Cazorla & Ozil

please prove me wrong and tell me of one English player that can regularly pick the ball up in a tight position surrounded by players and still come ou the other side with the ball. We looked good for the first half and hour or so against Italy when they where pushing forward and allowing us to use our power and pace, but as soon as they dropped back and tightened things up it was a different story.

They don't by the way.

And it's lose.

 

[Fish]

Can you just imagine England v Germany at Wembley and an anthem with 80,000 fans singing YNWA.
That would be magic.

Your assuming everyone would sing it, they wouldn't!