England

[Dodger]

2/3 teams above us in world rankings and reserves used in final game. I'm not sayin it's been great, but I don't think our performances have been as shambolic as at other tournaments.

Really?

Italy are not a great side and neither Uruguay then you are left with Costa Rica who were playing a glorified friendly in 1st gear today and your sum total was 1 point from that last game.

We'll agree to disagree but I thought you were void of ideas,static,poor in possession,bad defensively and the only bit of Armour you had was a bit of pace but that was tempered with hee haw skill and composure.

 

[Rumpokid]

And listening to the pundits is incredible.......positive this positive that.

What was positive??

England were a disaster who did not qualify against 3 pretty poor sides. Not one of their players can come away from that with
plus points,no one shone at all.

Agreed..I think if we played in red shirts, we would perform better..(honestly)..Might even get some of the Liverpool supporters to get behind the country...Hmm..Then again,maybe not..

 

[dontfancythisputt]

Yet again I will say it depends on what you mean by technical. One of England's major failings is that they are not very technically gifted when compared to a lot of nations. I heard a bit of the latest match on 5 live and Danny Mills was berating them for not offering for passes and not being confident when in possession of the ball in dangerous areas (anyone can pass it between the back 4 all day) or for wasting the final ball.

You watch an England match when someone is looking for a pass in the oppositions half and at times players run away just because there is an opposition player within 5 yards of them. Other teams do not do that as their players have the technical ability to control the ball when under a bit of pressure and find a pass to their own team without resulting to a hoof/long ball, as we do all to often in times of pressure. Most England players do not have this ability, probably because years and years of coaching has not valued that skill.

And I could argue that technically Uruguay are a better football team as they went through with 6 points and we did not with one point. Wake up, smell the coffee, we are not very good nowadays, this result was not a fluke. I agree that the future could be bright with the players we have, but as it stands we used to be a team that would lose in the quarter finals and are now a team that struggles to get out of a group in the World Cup.

I'm sure the players had a massive amount of desire to do well, but they were just not good enough.

I agree with most of this and may have been misunderstood regarding my views on englands quality. I am in total agreement that England are at present a very poor side but my argument is that there are teams I consider worse who are through to the next stage.

I have watched a number of the teams I mentioned in this world cup and whilst they show some amazing skill and talent imo they are often well short on the technical basics of the game. At times tonight even Costa Rica couldn't pass a 20 yard ball to an unmarked man. I consider England to have these basics.

What I see from the poorer teams is a desire to score goals to win matches England for a long time had only the desire not to lose.

In this campaign England may have looked to change this approach but it hasn't worked as we aren't good enough to score and it led to exposure at the back.

What I cant stand is in my view a lack of effort to change a score when you have nothing to loose. Against Uruguay I saw Rooney try to beat 4 men on his own and nearly succeed the trouble was it was 88 mins and he was alone in his efforts. That kind of desire from 3 or 4 more mid way through the second half would have got us something im sure.

I dont for a minute doubt the desire of each individual but in my view the collective desire a well gelled team need is missing.

 

[2blue]

2/3 teams above us in world rankings and reserves used in final game. I'm not sayin it's been great, but I don't think our performances have been as shambolic as at other tournaments.

Spot on Papa..... not a lot was expected of England so why be surprised with the result ??? but, ..... Other than a few 'this or that's' we'd be through....... certainly not the shambles I've seen over the 5 decades of watching England.

 

[Rumpokid]

Spot on Papa..... not a lot was expected of England so why be surprised with the result ??? but, ..... Other than a few 'this or that's' we'd be through....... certainly not the shambles I've seen over the 5 decades of watching England.

5 decades?..So 86 and 90 were a shambles?

 

[2blue]

I dont for a minute doubt the desire of each individual but in my view the collective desire a well gelled team need is missing.

However many folk on here have questioned that desire as well as the question of putting Club before Country.
Firstly I must say I've really enjoyed reading the exchanges/comments on here & am glad the moderators have applied reason to the often passionate feelings that have emerged.
With passion, often out of the window goes reason.... so my observations come from many years of following the fortunes of England since witnessing, as a 19 year old, the '66 win.
Since then English club football & England as a nation have changed immeasurably. In those days we had little understanding of 'Johnny Foreigner' & his footballing ways other than they were dishonest & crafty. All the Eng team was, without question, white, home grown, home bred & all over England HRM's subjects stood in cinemas for the National Anthem after the evenings film. However over the years things have steadily changed & we, like most of the Western world, have, inevitably, become an increasingly multi-ethnic , multi-cultural nation where religion & cap-doffing is of less & less significance & the establishment have been exposed for what they are.
It was therefore, as a long term Eng follower, exceedingly disappointing to hear the Ingerlanders calling out for my team to have to sing (Queenie's Song) The British National Anthem, & for Hodgson to have to get them to agree to it thus causing problems for any Republican &/or atheists members. Also I must say I'm not sure when it was that England grabbed this UK/British Anthem for their own thus ignoring other UK members.
It's now long past the time that we had a real National Song that ALL English citizens can relate to, sing with pride & will bond individuals of all cultures and backgrounds in those moments before they go onto the pitch and let their passion show otherwise how will we ever be able to put together the strongest side from our diverse Nation.

 

[Fish]

Did you know England have recorded more 0-0 results on the world stage than any other country, ever!

Speaks volumes, seems our footballers prefer to score more off the park than on it!

 

[2blue]

5 decades?..So 86 and 90 were a shambles?

More shambles than successes.... that's for sure

 

[Fish]

However many folk on here have questioned that desire as well as the question of putting Club before Country.
Firstly I must say I've really enjoyed reading the exchanges/comments on here & am glad the moderators have applied reason to the often passionate feelings that have emerged.
With passion, often out of the window goes reason.... so my observations come from many years of following the fortunes of England since witnessing, as a 19 year old, the '66 win.
Since then English club football & England as a nation have changed immeasurably. In those days we had little understanding of 'Johnny Foreigner' & his footballing ways other than they were dishonest & crafty. All the Eng team was, without question, white, home grown, home bred & all over England HRM's subjects stood in cinemas for the National Anthem after the evenings film. However over the years things have steadily changed & we, like most of the Western world, have, inevitably, become an increasingly multi-ethnic , multi-cultural nation where religion & cap-doffing is of less & less significance & the establishment have been exposed for what they are.
It was therefore, as a long term Eng follower, exceedingly disappointing to hear the Ingerlanders calling out for my team to have to sing (Queenie's Song) The British National Anthem, & for Hodgson to have to get them to agree to it thus causing problems for any Republican &/or atheists members. Also I must say I'm not sure when it was that England grabbed this UK/British Anthem for their own thus ignoring other UK members.
It's now long past the time that we had a real National Song that ALL English citizens can relate to, sing with pride & will bond individuals of all cultures and backgrounds in those moments before they go onto the pitch and let their passion show otherwise how will we ever be able to put together the strongest side from our diverse Nation.

Were did you cut & paste that from, I've read your posts before and their not your words

 

[HomerJSimpson]

5 decades?..So 86 and 90 were a shambles?

Cant agree about five decades. We were within a post of beating Germany. I watched the first half today and thought they looked ok without being world beaters. As a second string side that tells me there is an element of depth to the squad we've been lacking (Oxlade Chamberlain and Walcott to return too)

 

[Rumpokid]

However many folk on here have questioned that desire as well as the question of putting Club before Country.
Firstly I must say I've really enjoyed reading the exchanges/comments on here & am glad the moderators have applied reason to the often passionate feelings that have emerged.
With passion, often out of the window goes reason.... so my observations come from many years of following the fortunes of England since witnessing, as a 19 year old, the '66 win.
Since then English club football & England as a nation have changed immeasurably. In those days we had little understanding of 'Johnny Foreigner' & his footballing ways other than they were dishonest & crafty. All the Eng team was, without question, white, home grown, home bred & all over England HRM's subjects stood in cinemas for the National Anthem after the evenings film. However over the years things have steadily changed & we, like most of the Western world, have, inevitably, become an increasingly multi-ethnic , multi-cultural nation where religion & cap-doffing is of less & less significance & the establishment have been exposed for what they are.
It was therefore, as a long term Eng follower, exceedingly disappointing to hear the Ingerlanders calling out for my team to have to sing (Queenie's Song) The British National Anthem, & for Hodgson to have to get them to agree to it thus causing problems for any Republican &/or atheists members. Also I must say I'm not sure when it was that England grabbed this UK/British Anthem for their own thus ignoring other UK members.
It's now long past the time that we had a real National Song that ALL English citizens can relate to, sing with pride & will bond individuals of all cultures and backgrounds in those moments before they go onto the pitch and let their passion show otherwise how will we ever be able to put together the strongest side from our diverse Nation.

Break out the hovis and the newspaper for bogroll...Those were the days!!!!!

 

[standrew]

More shambles than successes.... that's for sure

As a neutral i think 86 was a fair result given the team, lack of john barnes etc. 90 was definately a good achievement, W Germany couldve scored about 5 in that game. 98 semis would have been fair given strength of Brazil and France.

I dont really know when England have underachieved given ability at the particular time.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Spot on Papa..... not a lot was expected of England so why be surprised with the result ??? but, ..... Other than a few 'this or that's' we'd be through....... certainly not the shambles I've seen over the 5 decades of watching England.

The performances were better than SA, anyone who thinks otherwise either has a short memory or knows nothing about football. They were also more encouraging the the last Euro's. The results weren't good but in every game we created enough chances for the outcome to be different. Remember Rooney's chances against Italy & Uruguay? Sturridge's chances tonight? Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of work to be done but at least now we look like we can finally move forward with some exciting youngsters and not rely and the same old faces who have failed year after year.

Sure there were individual errors and we needed to be more clinical in front of goal but it wasn't as bad as some make out. And lets face it, not 2 weeks ago most people were predicting we wouldn't get through the group.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think we have potential now. Get rid of Gerrard, Lampard etc and get the young players in and blooded in the EC campaign. I think Rooney still has a place in the squad. Is he the potent goalscorer we need. Well his record, WC aside would argue yes and to be honest who is the out and out and proven replacement

 

[NWJocko]

The performances were better than SA, anyone who thinks otherwise either has a short memory or knows nothing about football. They were also more encouraging the the last Euro's. The results weren't good but in every game we created enough chances for the outcome to be different. Remember Rooney's chances against Italy & Uruguay? Sturridge's chances tonight? Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of work to be done but at least now we look like we can finally move forward with some exciting youngsters and not rely and the same old faces who have failed year after year.

Sure there were individual errors and we needed to be more clinical in front of goal but it wasn't as bad as some make out. And lets face it, not 2 weeks ago most people were predicting we wouldn't get through the group.

Was just going to say that it wasnt great but England were worse, probably by a distance, in South Africa 4 years back when they were truly dire and had zero ambition.

 

[2blue]

Were did you cut & paste that from, I've read your posts before and their not your words

No C & P Robin..... 'twas spoken from the heart

Break out the hovis and the newspaper for bogroll...Those were the days!!!!!

Wake up fella... 21st century is here... please pay attention..... England has changed:ears:

 

[Liverbirdie]

I think we have potential now. Get rid of Gerrard, Lampard etc and get the young players in and blooded in the EC campaign. I think Rooney still has a place in the squad. Is he the potent goalscorer we need. Well his record, WC aside would argue yes and to be honest who is the out and out and proven replacement

Never minds the individuals you have mentioned (I agree btw),but hasn't this being getting said for 20 years now - "Bring the kids in, build for the next tournament" - When are they going to be ready, then?

Nice words 2blue BTW, I could hear the Wurlitzer in the background.

 

[Slab]

Well that game was mince!

Cant believe how many times possession was given up (not taken away) simply unforced errors all over the park, by both teams

Looking at England in particular (just cos I'm more familiar with those players) the performance reminded me of a pre season club game where a few new faces have joined in the transfer window and the players now need some games to learn how to play as a team

Listening to Hodgson on 5 Live on the radio shows why England will never improve - you would think England qualified

Agree, I think he was overly positive about a poor performance at a time when he really should have been speaking a little more frankly

 

[Hacker Khan]

What I cant stand is in my view a lack of effort to change a score when you have nothing to loose. Against Uruguay I saw Rooney try to beat 4 men on his own and nearly succeed the trouble was it was 88 mins and he was alone in his efforts. That kind of desire from 3 or 4 more mid way through the second half would have got us something im sure.

I dont for a minute doubt the desire of each individual but in my view the collective desire a well gelled team need is missing.

At 88 minutes 2-1 down that's not desire, that's desperation

The last manager to make a brave courageous decision to pick a cohesive team instead of trying to incorporate individuals was Sir Alf in 1966 with dropping Jimmy Greaves. And look how that turned out.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It's now long past the time that we had a real National Song that ALL English citizens can relate to, sing with pride & will bond individuals of all cultures and backgrounds in those moments before they go onto the pitch and let their passion show otherwise how will we ever be able to put together the strongest side from our diverse Nation.

Price Tag by Jessie J??