Electric car for golfers?

[North Mimms]

Thinking of changing my car early next year.
We're thinking of getting an electric one, and although it will be nominally my car, the plan is that it will be the "popping to the golf club" car for either of us, and keep Mr Mimms' car for longer journeys or those requiring more boot space.

Anyone gone pure electric and any recommendations?

(I know if I want range and boot space, I need a Tesla, but that's not in our budget!)

 

[Lazkir]

There was a thread from about a year or so ago where another FM was asking similar. I've tried searching for the thread but can't find it.

Anyway, long story short... they're fantastic!

I have a pure electric van (Kangoo) and it's as cheap as chips to run. On a full charge I'll get about 80 miles, but that's improved a bit on the newer vehicles. (but not that much)
Be wary of advertised range, whatever they say it is, take a third off and that's your real life range. But from the sounds of it, that won't be a problem for you.
Second hand Nissan Leaf Mk 1's should be reasonably cheap now the new version is out. I'm pretty sure someone on these forums actually bought one for his wife.

 

[Leftie]

I think that it was ChrisD who bought one and Smiffy used to sell them ..........

 

[Jacko_G]

There was a thread from about a year or so ago where another FM was asking similar. I've tried searching for the thread but can't find it.

Anyway, long story short... they're fantastic!

I have a pure electric van (Kangoo) and it's as cheap as chips to run. On a full charge I'll get about 80 miles, but that's improved a bit on the newer vehicles. (but not that much)
Be wary of advertised range, whatever they say it is, take a third off and that's your real life range. But from the sounds of it, that won't be a problem for you.
Second hand Nissan Leaf Mk 1's should be reasonably cheap now the new version is out. I'm pretty sure someone on these forums actually bought one for his wife.

That's no use to man nor beast!

How do I get to Machrihanish? In all seriousness, I will probably change my car next year and would consider something "economical" but I want at least 400 miles out of one. Also why can the battery not "self charge" while driving?

 

[GregKael]

That's no use to man nor beast!

Also why can the battery not "self charge" while driving?

Because "you cannae change the laws of physics"

A self charging battery would suffer from the law of conservation of energy, your essentially looking at perpetual motion.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's no use to man nor beast!

How do I get to Machrihanish? In all seriousness, I will probably change my car next year and would consider something "economical" but I want at least 400 miles out of one. Also why can the battery not "self charge" while driving?

I don’t tbink any car can do 400 - it’s only the Tesla’s at the moment that go over 300 and you of course pay for that.

Guess your best option would be hybrid and then the world is your oyster depending on how much you want to pay etc

And self charging batteries just can’t happen.

 

[Jacko_G]

I don’t tbink any car can do 400 - it’s only the Tesla’s at the moment that go over 300 and you of course pay for that.

Guess your best option would be hybrid and then the world is your oyster depending on how much you want to pay etc

And self charging batteries just can’t happen.

Genuinely why can't there be a self charging battery using kinetic energy from the tyres/wheels with a dynamo type of device? Surely we can harness the wheel to generate electricity?

Genuine question, I ain't got a clue how much we could harness and feed back to a "reserve" battery or similar? Could it in theory be done?

Science is not my bag baby!

 

[USER1999]

Genuinely why can't there be a self charging battery using kinetic energy from the tyres/wheels with a dynamo type of device? Surely we can harness the wheel to generate electricity?

Genuine question, I ain't got a clue how much we could harness and feed back to a "reserve" battery or similar? Could it in theory be done?

Science is not my bag baby!

Because it is like trying to pick yourself up in a bucket.

 

[jim8flog]

Genuinely why can't there be a self charging battery using kinetic energy from the tyres/wheels with a dynamo type of device? Surely we can harness the wheel to generate electricity?

!

This type of technology already exists, it is used in Formula 1 cars and I believe one of the electric car manufacturers is using it.

 

[Hobbit]

I've gone down the hybrid route. A Kia Niro. It looks like a smaller version of the Sportage. Not small but not huge either. It has a 1.6 petrol engine, backed by a 41bhp electric motor.

Why a hybrid for me? Distance between charging stations over here meant an electric was (pun intended) a non-starter. The batteries are charged depending on how you drive. Floor it, and drive it like you stole it and the batteries will slowly deplete. But every time you take your foot off the accelerator, or brake, and the battery charges.

Is it economic? I get up to 70mpg on local runs, which is the majority of the driving I do, dropping to around 60mpg if we're doing a few long runs.

Size? Had 5 adults in it quite comfortably, and 3 sets of clubs in the boot quite comfortably.

 

[Imurg]

What about alternating between 2 sets of batteries. One gets charged by the rotating wheels while the other one powers the car.
When it runs low it automatically switches to the charged battery and the cycle continues.....
Could that work?
Should I patent it?

 

[Jacko_G]

What about alternating between 2 sets of batteries. One gets charged by the rotating wheels while the other one powers the car.
When it runs low it automatically switches to the charged battery and the cycle continues.....
Could that work?
Should I patent it?

I was there first!

😂

 

[USER1999]

What about alternating between 2 sets of batteries. One gets charged by the rotating wheels while the other one powers the car.
When it runs low it automatically switches to the charged battery and the cycle continues.....
Could that work?
Should I patent it?

You cannot patent something which is against the laws of physics. It is one of the rules of patenting.

What you are trying to invent is a perpetual motion machine. These cannot exist. Energy loses caused by heat, friction, wind resistance, inefficiencies in energy transfer system, noise, etc, will all causes losses.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Genuinely why can't there be a self charging battery using kinetic energy from the tyres/wheels with a dynamo type of device? Surely we can harness the wheel to generate electricity?

Genuine question, I ain't got a clue how much we could harness and feed back to a "reserve" battery or similar? Could it in theory be done?

Science is not my bag baby!

You could have a second battery pack and use the rear wheels to charge that whilst you use the first battery pack to get the car moving using the front wheels - but for the cars currently the battery pack would need to be double the size of the cars. I guess at some stage in the future the battery packs on domestic cars will be small enough and affordable enough

 

[Jacko_G]

You cannot patent something which is against the laws of physics. It is one of the rules of patenting.

What you are trying to invent is a perpetual motion machine. These cannot exist. Energy loses caused by heat, friction, wind resistance, inefficiencies in energy transfer system, noise, etc, will all causes losses.

Why is it against the law of physics?

On off grid cabin harnesses wind power and store it in banks of car batteries which can be used to provide electricity in the cabin.

Why can you not harness the power coming from the wheels to power cells within a car?

 

[GregKael]

This type of technology already exists, it is used in Formula 1 cars and I believe one of the electric car manufacturers is using it.

In F1, the charging of the battery is done by the energy created by the "traditional" engine. The battery merely boosts a small part of the overall engine, it's pretty much how all hybrid vehicles or those with Energy Recovery Systems work.

You cannot patent something which is against the laws of physics. It is one of the rules of patenting.

What you are trying to invent is a perpetual motion machine. These cannot exist. Energy loses caused by heat, friction, wind resistance, inefficiencies in energy transfer system, noise, etc, will all causes losses.

In theory, the idea of two batteries could work, but it is unlikely that the charge rate on the second battery would be sufficient to last for long when they swap over

 

[Dibby]

Genuinely why can't there be a self charging battery using kinetic energy from the tyres/wheels with a dynamo type of device? Surely we can harness the wheel to generate electricity?

Genuine question, I ain't got a clue how much we could harness and feed back to a "reserve" battery or similar? Could it in theory be done?

Science is not my bag baby!

It does exist, but it doesn't work how you think.

First consider that no dynamo is 100% efficient, a good one could be around 80%. That is to say, if you put 100W of energy into the dynamo, you would get about 80W of electricity, the other 20W would be spent making unwanted heat and noise etc...
Keep in mind the same applies to motors also, so if you take 100W from the battery, you might generate 80W power from the motor.

So considering the above, if you used the battery to turn a motor to drive a dynamo to charge a battery, you would use 100W from the battery and generate 64W of energy to recharge the battery, so ultimately you are just draining the battery slower. This is without even using any of that power to move the car.

In the real world, because an electric motor and a dynamo are effectively the same thing (only difference is what type of force is input and output - the construction of the device is the same), you use energy from the battery to power the motor when "on the throttle", but when coasting or braking you won't be supplying any energy to the motor, so the wheels turning the motor will generate electricity which will recharge the battery. Due to the fact you will spend more time using power than braking or coasting (so more time discharging than charging), and the fact you waste energy in both phases due to about 20% being lost to inefficiency (so even if you charged and discharged for exactly the same amount of time, some energy is wasted), the battery will eventually end up fully discharged and need an external power source to charge it up.
In theory, you could then push the car for a few hundred miles to do that, but it's easier and more efficient to just plug it in (the human body is not as efficient as a dynamo, the power output is about 25% of what is input i.e. food).

Hope the above makes sense. Let me know if it's unclear and I will try to explain it better.

 

[USER1999]

Because the mechanism that harnesses the energy from the wheel rotation will cause friction and heat. This will slow the wheel rotation, and drain the other battery faster. The charging one will be charging less efficiently, due to the losses in the charging process. Hence eventually (quite quickly in reality) you will grind to a halt.

Harnessing wind power is different, as you are putting nothing in yourself.

 

[GregKael]

Why is it against the law of physics?

On off grid cabin harnesses wind power and store it in banks of car batteries which can be used to provide electricity in the cabin.

Why can you not harness the power coming from the wheels to power cells within a car?

Dibby, just explained it pretty well.

Here's a wiki entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

 

[Dibby]

Why is it against the law of physics?

On off grid cabin harnesses wind power and store it in banks of car batteries which can be used to provide electricity in the cabin.

Why can you not harness the power coming from the wheels to power cells within a car?

I think my previous post answered this, but to answer your specific question - the wind is an external source of energy, you are just harnessing it.

Imagine if you tried to use a fan to spin a wind turbine, to make electricity to spin the fan. That would be the equivalent scenario, do you think it would work? In a theoretical world, it could assuming everything was 100% efficient and never wasted energy, but it would still be pointless because the turbine would make 100W of electricity, the electricity would generate 100W of kinetic energy in the blades moving the air and moving the blades of the turbine, and then the turbines blades would make 100W of electricity. Ultimately all the system would do is power itself and you could not use that energy.
If you wanted energy to use you would need a device that outputs more energy than is input, unfortunately with current understanding, this is not possible.

In the real world nothing is 100% efficient, energy would be lost making undesired heat, noise etc..