Donald Trump, man of many faces!

[shewy]

I worked at a power station I was not employed by them so there is certainly no bias there.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one Craw.

HughJars your spot on with regards to the locals and councillers Ford and Stoor

 

[chris661]

Gentlemen, debating issues is fine but please refrain from using derogatory language and personal insults. If you have to resort to that level then should you really be posting?

Any more posts like this and I will lock the thread which is disappointing as it is generally informative.

 

[CliveW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMcn7ZAx3lY&feature=player_embedded

Judging from that video and what I've heard, there are vey few holes where you can actually see the sea so the wind farm will not spoil the vista.

 

[A1ex]

As this is a thread about Menie, you clearly implied that he was building in the wrong place with this comment - "Near to London, nice weather, good access and even airport."

I didn't clearly imply anything. You got the wrong end of the stick and called me ignorant. Which something your guilty of boy, not me :rofl:

I never said anything negative to do with his project in Scotland.

As has been pointed out, Aberdeen gets less rainfall than Kent, in fact one of the driest parts of the UK, is the oil capital of Europe, has good access, and an airport. Your ill informed post was obviously implying that none of these applied, and if you go back, you'll see I was not the only one that thought this. If you didn't mean this, I'd be astonished.

Again no misinformed post. Just you putting 2+2 together and coming up with 9. You must be pretty insecure/paranoid about the subject to twist my words about a seperate resort and see them as an insult.

Also, there's a reason he's not building "near to London", because he's building for the golf tourist market, specifically the Japs and the Yanks, so funnily enough, that means Scotland.

Yes because theres no 'Japs' and 'Yanks' that visit the top heathland courses around Surrey/Berkshire is there I'm fortunate to play at some of the good clubs around that area and theres plenty of golf tourists there, paying £150 plus a round. The only reason theres not loads more is most of those clubs are members clubs who don't whore themselves out to big groups of hackers waving wads of cash.

London is the capital of commerce and tourism in England and Heathrow is the busiest airport in the world. A high end course on the South Coast would be within two hours of all that. If it was designed like a mini version of Doral which Trump has purchased recently and hammered to the tourists it would make a fortune. Golf tourists could base themselves there and travel all around the South East for golf and other major attractions. It would also be within 2 hours of around 20 million people, so golfers based in the area would be attracted to it.

In the interests of balance, I'm aware Trump is aiming for the golf tourists who travel to Scotland to play the famous courses there, not just his new one. However as theres so many courses of note in that part of the world, the flipside is he may have a struggle to get them to pay top dollar for a course with no history.

I wish him all the best. Any top new course is good for the game in my eyes.

 

[CliveW]

London is the capital of commerce and tourism in England and Heathrow is the busiest airport in the world. A high end course on the South Coast would be within two hours of all that. If it was designed like a mini version of Doral which Trump has purchased recently and hammered to the tourists it would make a fortune. Golf tourists could base themselves there and travel all around the South East for golf and other major attractions. It would also be within 2 hours of around 20 million people, so golfers based in the area would be attracted to it.

The whole point is Trump wanted to build a course in Scotland, not any other part of the UK, because his mother is Scottish.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

A1ex
How come that European tour events will not touch the London area due to the fact that the spectator numbers are so poor.
Three tour events in Scotland well supported.
Only one Tour event in England.

 

[the_scrambler]

Donald Trump, man of many faces!

What an aptly named thread title.

The supreme irony being of course that whilst The Donald currently sees himself as Scotland's scenery saviour, he thought nothing of building his course on what was supposed to be a protected dune.

 

[HughJars]

What an aptly named thread title.

The supreme irony being of course that whilst The Donald currently sees himself as Scotland's scenery saviour, he thought nothing of building his course on what was supposed to be a protected dune.

While the area in question makes for a stunning golf course as you can see from the video, the Menie estate itself was in no way an area of any sort of scenic splendour, in fact no-one went there until Trump came along, preferring instead the neighbouring Balmedie area. Of course once trump showed up, up popped Ford & Stoor to roll out their wholly unrepresentative, but very loud views.

 

[shewy]

What an aptly named thread title.

The supreme irony being of course that whilst The Donald currently sees himself as Scotland's scenery saviour, he thought nothing of building his course on what was supposed to be a protected dune.

Got to agree with Hugh on this one,unless you have been there you would not say it. Yes there is some dunes but the whole coastline is full of dunes and trust me there was only the odd seagull and someone walking thier dog on the beach (you can still walk on the beach) My sister stays in Balmedie and it's a nice walk through the dunes to the beach, nobody walks over the dunes. Protected area please don't make me laugh,you would be as well protect the surrounding farmers fields!

 

[the_scrambler]

While the area in question makes for a stunning golf course as you can see from the video, the Menie estate itself was in no way an area of any sort of scenic splendour, in fact no-one went there until Trump came along, preferring instead the neighbouring Balmedie area. Of course once trump showed up, up popped Ford & Stoor to roll out their wholly unrepresentative, but very loud views.

Now, try and convince me that a golf course - any golf course - is a better option than this which is free by the way unlike Trump's 'pay as you go' golf course which only the well-off will be able to afford to play ...

http://www.conservation-jobs.co.uk/53040/donald-trumps-impact-on-the-environment/

Here's why this particular dune should have been protected. Hang on a minute, it was protected ... by an SSSI. Hmm, guess the rule of expediency wins out again.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/golf_plans_threaten_change_of_biblical_scale_1_1173414#

 

[HughJars]

Thing is scrambler, all that hyp[erbole was proved nothing more than scaremongering (the Scotsamn has always been anti this development, Aberdeen Journals always pro this developemnt).

He hasn't destroyed the dunes, he hasn't shifted "biblical amounts of sand". Perhaps their concerns were being bvalidly put forward at the time, but with hindsite have been proven ill-founded, the proof is there for anyone who wants to go out for a look. Until you're actually on the course, you wouldn't know it was there.

And again, lets not lose site of the fact that over 99% of Aberdeen's population could have told you nothing of this SSSI, or even of its existence before Trump came along. So lets not get all gooey eyed about it.

 

[the_scrambler]

@HughJars

Your missing the point. It matters not who is for or against this project. The only thing that matters is whether or not part of Scotland's heritage should have been vandalised particularly without any guarantees that his housing project would ever be built. He is after all currently making threatening noises about pulling out if those turbines go up.

The fact remains that Trump has stabilised a large portion of this dune which, in effect, has destroyed it because it is meant to move. And, yes, it did take biblical amounts to forge those fairways. It is nothing less than an act of vandalism and I would still like to know how Aberdeenshire Council, in cahoots with the Scottish government, were able to circumvent eu law by literally bulldozing their way through an SSSI.

Incidentally, you may well be correct in your assumption that virtually all aberdonians were ignorant of the significance of this rare dune system but I am at a loss to understand why you would regard their ignorance as a defence for what is the indefensible.

 

[HughJars]

Scotland's heritage? A puckle sand? I don't think you'll find many Aberdonains in agreement there.

My point about our ignorance of this "special" site, is that it is nothing of the sort, the area was a bleak stretch of coastline on the way to Ellon that no-one gave a second thought to until Laird Trump came to town.

And no it didn't take biblical amounts of sand moving to make the course, as you can see from the pics, he has crafted through between the dunes, not over and flattening them.

So far every part of the protestors claims have been shown to be hysteria, CPOs, bulldozing the dunes, it'll never be built, it'll be 3rd rate.

Finally it's bizzare of you to claim however that there should have been a guarantee that the housing would be built, this was the main source of conflict, and indeed many of his supporters, myself included, stumbled on that particular facet of the development. If it turns out he does stop any further developemtn, and the houses are never built, I doubt you'll find anyone who's unhappy about that.

 

[Dodger]

Is there a dune equivalent of a tree hugger?

 

[thecraw]

Now, try and convince me that a golf course - any golf course - is a better option than this which is free by the way unlike Trump's 'pay as you go' golf course which only the well-off will be able to afford to play ...

http://www.conservation-jobs.co.uk/53040/donald-trumps-impact-on-the-environment/

Here's why this particular dune should have been protected. Hang on a minute, it was protected ... by an SSSI. Hmm, guess the rule of expediency wins out again.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/golf_plans_threaten_change_of_biblical_scale_1_1173414#

It wasn't even Scotlands first course to be built on a site of SSSI so I dont understand your holly stance against Trump.

Machrihanish Dunes actually flies in the face of your first link as they have evidenced that the flora and fauna has actually flourished since the course has been built.

 

[the_scrambler]

@the craw


Since you were clearly too lazy to check your facts, allow me to enlighten you ...


http://www.golfenvironment.org/news/2010/11/machrihanish-dunes-awarded-geo-certification-1

Machrihanish Dunes is an example of what can be achieved when golf course developers work with nature, rather than against it. The land that Machrihanish Dunes inhabits is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI). Machrihanish Dunes is the first course to be built upon SSSI land. This SSSI designation provides special protection to the land, which required construction of the course to take place with minimal disruption to the natural environment. The site is home to five rare types of orchid, requiring the course to monitor the growth of the flowers, which have flourished with the active removal of trash and non-native pests that had begun to inhabit the space.

 

[thecraw]

So I'm right meathead, its now even more eco.

 

[the_scrambler]

@the craw

Oh dear, you're really not very bright are you? The point is that whilst the Machrihanish Dunes course was created in sympathy with the area's SSSI status, Trump's wasn't!

 

[chris661]

Right, I gave a warning regarding personal insults and derogatory language, unfortunately it has continued so that is it.