does stableford favour higher hc players?

[Oddsocks]

Today was the monthly s/ford and after almost 12 hours solid rain the course had quite a fair amount of standing water on fairways but it was playable and the comp went ahead but from a more forward tee position that would be expected.

Anyway throughout the morning we were treated to yet more rain and it was hacking it down as we walked off 18, quietly confident that 19/19 for 38 points was pretty consistent and the weather was worsening, I was convinced the winning score would already be in as conditions were only getting worse.

I walked in to find my 38 was leading so was overall pretty chuffed, a solid 6 capper had also shot 38 but I had a better back nine.

Out of no where a procession of cards from 20+ capers come in, 40, 41, 42, 44 all being signed for.

Me and the six capper just laughed and took the positives, but we both agreed that from the forward tees having that amount of shots had to favour the higher capper player. The winning 44 actually come from a newer member off 25

 

[DCB]

Stableford isn't real golf anyway, it's designed to make the higher handicapper feel good about his play 'cause even they can pick up a birdie or two in a round

 

[virtuocity]

 

[Oddsocks]

I stole a couple of tweets today but missed a fair few to

My point is more that surely the harder the conditions, the better golfer should triumph, rather like any other sport. I'm really starting to come around to the 3/4 hc set up used on the Surrey golf tour.

12 hc = 9 for s/f comps. (38-3=35 pts)
25 hc = 19 for s/f comps (44-6=38 pts)

Just seems a a better way of doing things

 

[Hobbit]

You may well be right... I've just had a look on HDID at our midweek Stableford comps for the last year - played as a qualifier every Wednesday. Winter, short course, scores up to 42pts and more 18+h'cap winners.

 

[G1BB0]

of course it does but it also gives them comps with a chance of winning and also means they are playing more and improving all the time (in general)

If all comps were only geared for the single figure/low teens guys then blokes off 20+ like me wouldnt bother entering anything!

I do play medals and until I improve will never come close for gross, have a sniff at net most week tho. I suppose thats wrong aswell and should be gross scores only or even limited to cat 1 & 2 only

 

[Oddsocks]

Gibbo, see my above response for reasoning

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We have a full sign up sheet for a stableford but only 50% (tops) get their name down for a medal. It tells you all you need that a lot of these 18 and upwards guys know they can't put together a score to win and so don't even enter. I wish we'd reduce the number of stableford events but know it will never happen

 

[Crow]

It's probably more to do with the forward tees.

Off full tees some of these guys probably struggle to reach the green in regulation, moving the tees up brings a few more greens into range and so changes the course more for them than it would for a lower handicap player who can reach the greens already.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

It's a toughy. No doubt medal comps favour lower handicappers (not necessarily too low) that can keep the ball in play for the majority of the round. If a club only ever held medal comps, I think the quality of golfer in the club would improve.

However, it would probably improve because some of the higher handicapper's left, as it's not all that fun shooting 80+nett. Stableford's give the higher handicapper the ability to lose a couple of balls, but still make a decent enough score and enjoy their round - for me, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[G1BB0]

ahh missed that bit, apologies OS, thought it was a dig at high cappers (well it was in a way lol).

Depends how big the field is I guess & the number of 20+ h/c as even in iffy conditions you will still get a few who have one of them days.

Around ours in crappy conditions 36 ish is generally good enough and is usually the blokes around 6-12 mark (6 is the lowest at the club btw) although I did win once with 40 in poor conditions and won by 4 points!

High cappers can have a few 4 for 4's here and there and the score soon mounts up regardless of conditions.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's probably more to do with the forward tees.

Off full tees some of these guys probably struggle to reach the green in regulation, moving the tees up brings a few more greens into range and so changes the course more for them than it would for a lower handicap player who can reach the greens already.

I was thinking about this today and came to the same conclusion.

 

[duncan mackie]

of course it does ....

oh no it doesn't......

all handicaps are based on stableford scoring - by definition it's the most handicap neutral form of competition.

 

[Oddsocks]

ahh missed that bit, apologies OS, thought it was a dig at high cappers (well it was in a way lol).

Depends how big the field is I guess & the number of 20+ h/c as even in iffy conditions you will still get a few who have one of them days.

Around ours in crappy conditions 36 ish is generally good enough and is usually the blokes around 6-12 mark (6 is the lowest at the club btw) although I did win once with 40 in poor conditions and won by 4 points!

High cappers can have a few 4 for 4's here and there and the score soon mounts up regardless of conditions.

Would it help that I had a 2 for 4 :grin:

 

[Val]

I'm torn on this, if a high HC has a good day then his Stableford score generally always in the 40's, not so much with cat 1's. The only difference with strokeplay is for a high HC to have a good day they normally have to get round with 1 ball.

Stableford is decent for sweeps etc but not for club comps IMO.

 

[Oddsocks]

I'm torn on this, if a high HC has a good day then his Stableford score generally always in the 40's, not so much with cat 1's. The only difference with strokeplay is for a high HC to have a good day they normally have to get round with 1 ball.

Stableford is decent for sweeps etc but not for club comps IMO.

I'm with this 100%!

I I don't normally agree with Scottish gentlemen

 

[ColchesterFC]

"I'm really starting to come around to the 3/4 hc set up used on the Surrey golf tour.

12 hc = 9 for s/f comps. (38-3=35 pts)
25 hc = 19 for s/f comps (44-6=38 pts)

Just seems a a better way of doing things"

My problem with the 3/4 handicap system is that it penalises the higher handicap players more than the low guys. I play off 18 and my best Stableford score in the last 12 months is 38 points on two occasions. 8 rounds out of 10 I will come in with between 32 and 36 points, 1 round in 10 will be 37/38 points and 1 round in 10 will be 27-31 points. I would love to play off a lower handicap but work offshore so for 6 months of the year I can't play and then when I'm home I'll be getting back into the rhythm and then miss another month. Why have a handicap system that allows me to play against a scratch golfer and compete and then say well actually we're not going to let you do that and you're going to have to give up 4 shots and your opponent doesn't give up any.

 

[Oddsocks]

I don't see how it favours either of 3/4s, you don't often see 10/12/14 cappers romp in with mid 40 points in a comp, but a 20+ with a half decent swing can and do do this on a regular basis, the high handicap allows for a greater margin of error without penalization.

Speak to anyone who's been a 20+ capper, when they get to 15/16 standing on tees knowing you have no shot on 3 holes can add preasure, put another way a 25 capper gets two shots of more holes than I get no shot on. I know hc is relative, but take our si1, you could hit the green with 3 7i's and with two shots be on the green for net 1, some par 3 can have a low index meaning two shots on a par 3 can and does happen.... One of our par 3s played about 185 uphill slightly as and into the wind, the top 6 in our comp all got two shots there today

 

[Imurg]

Yes it does favour the Higher handicapper
Perfect example last week.
150 yard par 3 SI 16
I put my tee shot on the green and 2 putt for a par and 2 points.
Fragger duffs a tee shot, plays up to just short of the green, chips on and sinks the 4 footer for a bogey - and 2 points....
If Fragger pars a hole - and he'll par 3 or 4 in the round - I have to birdie it to stay with him....
How can that be anything but an advantage to the higher handicapper...taking 7 shots on a par 4 SI1 and still walking off with a point...
Not that I particularly mind, I beat him as much as he beats me, but the scoring process does favour the High Guy.......

 

[ColchesterFC]

I don't see how it favours either of 3/4s,

It has to favour the lower handicap player. Someone with a handicap of 28 will have to play off 21 and shoot 7 under handicap to record 36 points. Someone playing off 4 will play off 3 and have to shoot 1 under handicap for 36 points. And someone off scratch doesn't lose any shots so will have to play to his handicap for 36 points.