does stableford favour higher hc players?

[duncan mackie]

I don't see how it favours either of 3/4s, you don't often see 10/12/14 cappers romp in with mid 40 points in a comp, but a 20+ with a half decent swing can and do do this on a regular basis, the high handicap allows for a greater margin of error without penalization.

Speak to anyone who's been a 20+ capper, when they get to 15/16 standing on tees knowing you have no shot on 3 holes can add preasure, put another way a 25 capper gets two shots of more holes than I get no shot on. I know hc is relative, but take our si1, you could hit the green with 3 7i's and with two shots be on the green for net 1, some par 3 can have a low index meaning two shots on a par 3 can and does happen.... One of our par 3s played about 185 uphill slightly as and into the wind, the top 6 in our comp all got two shots there today

still think you are overcomplicating things - people have a handicap for a reason; and that reason is associated with stableford scoring off full handicap!

take 500 yds, or more, off the course they usually play, especially if the courses main defence isn't length in the first place but running into hazards and undulating greens, and those factors that previously cause angst go away.

add in an SSS that suggests about 39 points is 'par' and, despite the conditions, you would expect the sort of scores that you saw to come in - without seeing the proportions of players at each handicap playing the event it's hard to take it accurately to the next level, but I wouldn't be surprised if what you got is what the system would have predicted!

we get this all the time at the moment - if the greenkeepers manage to get out with the hand mowers on the greens prior to the comp then it will probably be cat 2 handicappers, if they can't then it's cat 3 / low cat 4. It's v rarely high cat 4 - which also rather undermines the arguments here.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It has to favour the lower handicap player. Someone with a handicap of 28 will have to play off 21 and shoot 7 under handicap to record 36 points. Someone playing off 4 will play off 3 and have to shoot 1 under handicap for 36 points. And someone off scratch doesn't lose any shots so will have to play to his handicap for 36 points.

But it's harder to play to your h'cap off scratch than it is off 25, there is less margin for error

 

[Foxholer]

oh no it doesn't......

all handicaps are based on stableford scoring - by definition it's the most handicap neutral form of competition.

I'm with this!

Definitely more related to the forward tees.

And being one of the early comps of the year, the guys it does favour are the ones who got keen at the end of last season and did some practice over the Winter! This will tend to be the higher handicappers in the first place and their room for improvement is much greater.

I always expect a few 40+ rounds from the high guys who have spent time practicing over Winter.

You should actually be congratulating them and celebrating their dedication!

 

[duncan mackie]

But it's harder to play to your h'cap off scratch than it is off 25, there is less margin for error

oh no it isn't, it's the opposite.......the scratch player is handicapped to play to scratch more often (as %) than the 25 is handicapped to play to his.

 

[Siren]

Your handicap reflects your golfing ability.

We all have days where we can shoot 40+ points, New Years Day I played to 12. Havent played to anything below 19 since. The shorter courses at the moment make things far easier, A driver chip or driver 9 iron is far easier than driver 6 iron/5iron.

 

[Foxholer]

But it's harder to play to your h'cap off scratch than it is off 25, there is less margin for error

Another myth! Congu have stats somewhere that show the likelihood of playing to handicap or buffer is pretty much the same for all Categories. That's why the buffer is large for higher handicappers!

How do you thin the low guys got to their low handicap btw. Exactly the same way the high handicappers got to theirs!

The only concession re low to high would be the ability to get a couple of shots lower handicap. That tends to take longer for low handicappers than for high ones - but is not what the handicap is about!

 

[bigslice]

i just try and play golf regardless of what the format is

 

[duncan mackie]

Another myth! Congu have stats somewhere that show the likelihood of playing to handicap or buffer is pretty much the same for all Categories. That's why the buffer is large for higher handicappers!

How do you thin the low guys got to their low handicap btw. Exactly the same way the high handicappers got to theirs!

The only concession re low to high would be the ability to get a couple of shots lower handicap. That tends to take longer for low handicappers than for high ones - but is not what the handicap is about!

It's interesting to look at the results in the comp RickG won earlier today - limited field of people who had won medals in the previous season.

1 scr player - shot 71-0=71 (SSS/CSS 71)
the only cat 4 player, off 22, came last with a net 79

 

[Swingalot]

I'm amazed by three points in the op.

The course was open today.
The high scoring in that rain/conditions.
That the op went out in that weather?!

It has not stopped raining here since Friday afternoon, most of it very heavy. Is croydon under a seperate weather system?

 

[Evesdad]

I think it was prob a couple of factors the main one being the course was shorter and the other being it was the first comp and people who have been building up for the season over the winter.

On the course side I can relate as at the weekend we played a different course as ours was closed. This course is shorter than ours and playing off the mats in a more forward position. I scored 22 points on the front as a decent drive left me a wedge to 6 iron from the green. My GIR stats were the highest they've ever been.

Add to this the fact tat I've put some serious practice in over the last couple of months paid off. Give the new season a month and it will all settle down the improves will be cut and the courses will play their full length.

 

[Andy808]

This is no different to the moaning that low handicappers had when matchplay handicaps went from 3/4 to full but the data from 10,000 matches shows it's more even with a slight advantage to the low handicapper.

If you play well, either from shorter tees or from standard tees, you will get cut for a good score if it's a comp so those who do well get cut and next time have to improve to do it again for another cut or play well enough to hit their buffer.
I would say the vast majority of golfers would take the cut with pleasure as it's visual proof they are getting better and push them to carry that on. Whether large or small a cut is a cut and it gives the golfer pride in his accomplishment but this is usually tarnished by someone with a better handicap branding him a "bandit".

I played a 5 capper at matchplay and I had a blinding day with several pars and a smattering of birdies but still went down 5 and 4 as the other chap played well under par. If I hadn't had a good day I would have gone down 10 and 8 without a doubt. It's not just the higher cappers who have stella days and it's all relative. If I were you I would be relishing the fact I had got 38 points and go away happy with what YOU have accomplished today and not worry about the results of others.

 

[sweaty sock]

I dont think it gives any real advantage to high handicappers. I think high handicappers are always the ones who can improve the most, and the most quickly... especially early season.


Also, a point that annoys me every time this argument kicks off - you dont get to be a low handicapped golfer without winning your fair share of comps, or scoring your fair share of stand out stableford/net scores...

I will add one experience that goes against those points.... I once won a lowest gross with a level par 71. I had a 2 as well! For the 2's sweep I won £15, along with 4 others. For the gross? £3!!! For thinning a 5 iron and holing a putt - £15, for grinding out 18 holes at level par - £3. So for anyone who thinks being out of the picture for the lowest gross prize is a hardship - its normally not worth a round of drinks.

 

[beggsy]

I play off 9 an shot 27 points yesterday in our comp I don't recon that's bad for 9 holes

 

[Idlenorth1]

As a higher handicapper I will play in all comps I can regardless if they are medal or stableford. If playing a medal I know I cannot afford any more than a double or maybe even a triple bogey and may not take on shots that I would if playing in a stableford.
One of my best scores came in a medal towards the end of the year and I was happier with that than a good stableford score as shows more consistency and that will bring my hcp down (which should always be the main aim in my opinion)

 

[alnecosse]

While reading thread most posts seem to suggest stableford comp's are played from forward tees, our stableford comp's only 3 or 4 in a season but the course is never shortened,played from the normal back medal tee's is this to favoure the low handicapper's lol. But as a higher handicapper i would say stableford lets you have a disaster hole or 3.Where the lower guys don't really get that leeway.

 

[Evesdad]

They are usually played from the same as the comp tees but on this occasion the op said it was from forward tees due to the weather and condition of the course ie water logged.

 

[alnecosse]

See it now pays to read the post properly cheers wondered why it was shorter,our weather has been that bad lately we should be on pitch n putt.

 

[full_throttle]

IMO, yes stableford does favour high h/c players. I'm a cat 4 and have manged a couple of stableford wins but not got close in the medals.

Even as a cat 4 I can par sometimes 4 holes a round, so that in itself is a minimun 12 points, but I can aslo no score on a couple. I have parred both our index 1 and 2 holes before which gave me 4 points, it soon adds up. A single figure h/c would have to par more than he bogeys to get near to 36points.

 

[Slab]

I think the only players that stableford favours, over another group, is those on a handicap that doesn’t reflect their current ability/form

It could be high/mid or low but examples are more likely to be from those of us on higher numbers

It’s not the high handicap itself that’s favoured playing stableford, just the ones within that group who (for whatever reason) need an adjustment

 

[El Bandito]

The statistics seem to indicate that they don't. Stableford is more forgiving, in that a wild tee shot OB, is less of a disaster. I would imagine that the high handicapper is more likely to have this disaster in a round than a low handicapper. Obviously, a 10 loses 2 points in Stableford, but is much more damaging in medal. At my club, whether in a medal or stableford, we are all competing within our division, to remove the question. Often division 2 will out score division 1, but this has no impact on the division 1 results. All board competitions are medal or Matchplay format. Seems to work for us.