ArnoldArmChewer
Tour Winner
46 & 48 points, I would be delighted with those scores in 4BBB !!!!!
Do we make this game harder than needed with the equipment we choose,
- Thread starter Oddsocks
- Start date
I'm all for making the game easier. you see plenty of guys on here off 18+ using players clubs, they are not doing themselves any favours.
One Planer
Global Moderator
I've been holding off since last night but now feel the need to post 
I currently play off 14 (13.8), and due to be cut to 13 in the A/R. I started playing 'better player' clubs off an 18/19 handicap. I moved from my Taylormade R7 irons to Mizuno MP32's, quite a big jump I think we can all agree on that.
That season I dropped 2 full shots going from 18.4 (... Breifly 18.5) to 16.3.
I then had a bit of a windfall come my way and decided that, obviously, new shineys were in order, so got custom fitted for my MP63 irons (... And wedges). Since I've got fit in February this year, my handicap has gone from 16.3 to where it sits now at 13.8 and, as I said, I'm hopefully in the annual review to get dropped to 12.8. (... Fingers crossed).
I will agree 100% that forgiving clubs in the game of golf are no bad thing. What I will argue is the amount of forgiveness each player needs. To say everyone needs the same amount of help would be a little stereotypical and, well, daft.
Take Patrick above as a good example. Played MP62's and got to where he is handicap wise, but decided he'd like a little more help when not swinging well, so went to the 825 pro (.. I think). Patrick doesn't need masses of help, just enough for when his swing is a little out. Pointless giving him a set of, say, G25's as the massive difference in look, feel and flight would be quite off putting I would have thought.
Taking myself as another example. Everyone knows I love a good picture :lol: ....... So
I tend to find the middle more often than I miss it, so I don't feel I need anything more forgiving than I currently play. Of course I don't hit the middle every single time, that would just be a foolish claim, but that's why I don't play blades :thup:
The fitter, after viewing marks on impact tape, agreed I would have no issue playing the 63's.
If I was slapping the ball from all over the face, with no distinct pattern of strike, I'd definatley consider something more forgiving.
Like I say. Forgiving irons aren't a bad thing, neither are forgiving woods. The trick is tayloring the amount of forgiveness required to the player using the clubs.
My issues stem from too quick a transition to the downswing which, in turn, cause swing path issues giving the odd erratic flight. I strike the ball well enough, but when my swing path is off, the shape of the shot isn't as desired.
With all the best will in the world, no amount of forgiveness in a club head will correct a swing path issue because if it did, lets face it, we'd all be using them
If you're issues are hitting the ball fat, thin, top, shank, slice, hook etc, forgiving clubs won't help with that. Fix the swing.
If you strike the ball well, but find you miss the middle on the odd occasion, find a set of clubs you feel give you the best mix of confidence to look at and forgiveness when stuck off centre.
That's my tuppence. Over and out :lol:
I currently play off 14 (13.8), and due to be cut to 13 in the A/R. I started playing 'better player' clubs off an 18/19 handicap. I moved from my Taylormade R7 irons to Mizuno MP32's, quite a big jump I think we can all agree on that.
That season I dropped 2 full shots going from 18.4 (... Breifly 18.5) to 16.3.
I then had a bit of a windfall come my way and decided that, obviously, new shineys were in order, so got custom fitted for my MP63 irons (... And wedges). Since I've got fit in February this year, my handicap has gone from 16.3 to where it sits now at 13.8 and, as I said, I'm hopefully in the annual review to get dropped to 12.8. (... Fingers crossed).
I will agree 100% that forgiving clubs in the game of golf are no bad thing. What I will argue is the amount of forgiveness each player needs. To say everyone needs the same amount of help would be a little stereotypical and, well, daft.
Take Patrick above as a good example. Played MP62's and got to where he is handicap wise, but decided he'd like a little more help when not swinging well, so went to the 825 pro (.. I think). Patrick doesn't need masses of help, just enough for when his swing is a little out. Pointless giving him a set of, say, G25's as the massive difference in look, feel and flight would be quite off putting I would have thought.
Taking myself as another example. Everyone knows I love a good picture :lol: ....... So
I tend to find the middle more often than I miss it, so I don't feel I need anything more forgiving than I currently play. Of course I don't hit the middle every single time, that would just be a foolish claim, but that's why I don't play blades :thup:
The fitter, after viewing marks on impact tape, agreed I would have no issue playing the 63's.
If I was slapping the ball from all over the face, with no distinct pattern of strike, I'd definatley consider something more forgiving.
Like I say. Forgiving irons aren't a bad thing, neither are forgiving woods. The trick is tayloring the amount of forgiveness required to the player using the clubs.
My issues stem from too quick a transition to the downswing which, in turn, cause swing path issues giving the odd erratic flight. I strike the ball well enough, but when my swing path is off, the shape of the shot isn't as desired.
With all the best will in the world, no amount of forgiveness in a club head will correct a swing path issue because if it did, lets face it, we'd all be using them
If you're issues are hitting the ball fat, thin, top, shank, slice, hook etc, forgiving clubs won't help with that. Fix the swing.
If you strike the ball well, but find you miss the middle on the odd occasion, find a set of clubs you feel give you the best mix of confidence to look at and forgiveness when stuck off centre.
That's my tuppence. Over and out :lol:
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
People use whatever clubs they feel comfortable with and get the best results for them - whether that be blades or GI or players clubs
What I would always suggest though is to try all types and figure out what's best - don't use clubs based on a want to hit blades etc or based on pride. GI are there for a reason - to help , but they won't work for everyone
Blades might work better than any iron for a certain high handicappers or GI might work - there is no definitive method
What I would always suggest though is to try all types and figure out what's best - don't use clubs based on a want to hit blades etc or based on pride. GI are there for a reason - to help , but they won't work for everyone
Blades might work better than any iron for a certain high handicappers or GI might work - there is no definitive method
TheJezster
Tour Rookie
Gareth,
You seem to be going on the defensive there.. You dont have to justify yourself to anybody. It's your cash and your enjoyment, so play with what you want and dont give a damn. Simple as that.
Yes, generally, people might be making it harder for themselves by playing clubs which arent suitable, but there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, so just play with what you are comfortable with. You arent coming on here asking for help because you cant play with your clubs, so clearly any posts about people using the wrong clubs is not directed at you.
Personally, I'm not really bothered what i play with as long as I improve. I'm more than happy with the cleveland clubs i won from GM and Cleveland earlier this year, they've brought me down from a handicap of 17 i think at time of fitting to what i am now (12.7). I put myself totally in the fitters hands (ooerr missus) and let him guide me, so have no qualms about playing graphite shafts, seems they suit my slow smooth swing, so cool with me. I could swing it harder or faster but I dont see the point, the ball goes in the (general) direction I want it to and far enough without so unless I go to a long open course i swing within myself.
Forgiveness is a personal thing, some need more than others, but in answer to the theme of the thread, I would agree that many people probably do use clubs which arent suited to them, generally. Not all, obviously, but many, and could find that they would improve considerably by playing a more forgiving club.
One of the better players at our place, plays of 4 or 5 plays with the "chunky" G20/25's and thinks theyre great. Horses for courses.
You seem to be going on the defensive there.. You dont have to justify yourself to anybody. It's your cash and your enjoyment, so play with what you want and dont give a damn. Simple as that.
Yes, generally, people might be making it harder for themselves by playing clubs which arent suitable, but there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, so just play with what you are comfortable with. You arent coming on here asking for help because you cant play with your clubs, so clearly any posts about people using the wrong clubs is not directed at you.
Personally, I'm not really bothered what i play with as long as I improve. I'm more than happy with the cleveland clubs i won from GM and Cleveland earlier this year, they've brought me down from a handicap of 17 i think at time of fitting to what i am now (12.7). I put myself totally in the fitters hands (ooerr missus) and let him guide me, so have no qualms about playing graphite shafts, seems they suit my slow smooth swing, so cool with me. I could swing it harder or faster but I dont see the point, the ball goes in the (general) direction I want it to and far enough without so unless I go to a long open course i swing within myself.
Forgiveness is a personal thing, some need more than others, but in answer to the theme of the thread, I would agree that many people probably do use clubs which arent suited to them, generally. Not all, obviously, but many, and could find that they would improve considerably by playing a more forgiving club.
One of the better players at our place, plays of 4 or 5 plays with the "chunky" G20/25's and thinks theyre great. Horses for courses.
One Planer
Global Moderator
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
People also make the game harder for themselves by not practising, or practising the long game instead of the short game, or practising the things they're good at instead of the things they're bad at.
Nobody is under any obligation to do everything in their power to be the best they can be. It's a pastime not a job. Do what makes you happy :thup:
Nobody is under any obligation to do everything in their power to be the best they can be. It's a pastime not a job. Do what makes you happy :thup:
Foxholer
Blackballed
This seems awfully familiart! Back to it last week and hit all but 1 fairway - and plenty long too! Indeed, not as forgiving as later ones - and a sound only an owner could like - but back in the bag for the forseeable!
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Absolutely agree 100%.
Just recently there does appear to have been rather too many posts telling forumers what they should do. Whatever happened to playing this game for enjoyment?
G
guest100718
Guest
I have two examples of why I think there is a certain breed of golfer that makes the game more difficult than needed.
Example 1: a golfer who is not shy when it comes to investing in he's golf equipment (we shall call him fat-wallet)
plays off 14 and is generally a very steady 14 to boot. Fat-wallet has always named callaway but decided this year that he would invest in a full back of custom fit rbz stage 2, tour irons, wedges, fairways/hybrids and a driver ... All done at an approved taylormade CF agent. In 6 months he never breaks more than 38 points, generally doesn't seem to strike the ball with any sort of consistency but was convinced that he needed the rbz tour irons and a matching bag due to marketing hype, after 6 months of generally not being happy with he's golf books in with an open mind with a pro shop that a Cally, ping, titleist and Taylormade approved fitter and requests a full refit.
This was three weeks ago now complete with the callaway extreme driver, g25 woods/hybrid and g25 irons the guy i
Has not had a game lower than 42 points with some 46's and 48's thrown in, now I'm not going to say this is all down to the new clubs as we are now off forward tees, but this is proof that even off 14 with a vast history in the game GI irons and woods can help your scoring if nothing more than building confidence in the swing and consistency - homer, you may want to compare yourself with fat wallet
Example two ME.... My games hasn't been bad as such this year but has had highs and lows to sum it up nicely. With my irons coming strong and distances on the up I opted to upgrade the TM TP CB's to a set of razr x forged, both around the same spec I was hoping to see some improvements. 4 games in and a few range sessions my distances were down, consistency was lacking and quality of strike was out the window. After a intensive launch monitor session last week with two games I threw the old cbs in the bag on Saturday night for Sundays fiddle...... 40 points with a triple bogey on the card after a silly course management decision and a few shots still left out there, this coupled with some very windy tricky wet conditions
I sat in the bar while counting my winnings and thinking that without the silly decision and a couple of mistakes this round could have been close to a level par round.... With this in mind it made me wonder how many people try to game clubs well above their skill level in order to blow smoke up their ego, I know the cb's are far from SGI/Gi shovels, but how many are ting to make the game harder buy using unforgiving kit when their skill level requires that gentle cuddle on bad days...
It makes me ask how new clubs will improve my course management and not score those stupid doubles etc....
D
Deleted member 15717
Guest
It's more of a thought of it being freezing cold, and a mishit on a GI or SGI would be a lot softer on the hands than a mishit with a blade.
Allanxyz
Head Pro
Have been thinking the same recently... got some JPX 825 pros this summer, originally had some bigger GI Macgregors, just fancied a change and a treat for getting to single figures (I know, chucking out the clubs that got you there doesn't sound so sensible now!). Played decent with the 825 pros, but not great and have doubts about whether I should have got something more forgiving, especially as I'm not interested in shaping the ball.
I watch Mark Crossfield on youtube and see he plays JPX EZ (before he had the 825s) and think, if he's saying he's moved to GI clubs and is benefitting from them, then I might be going down the wrong path as I play once a week and don't practice. No matter how decent a ball striker I think I might be, I'm sure I'm not as good as him.
I watch Mark Crossfield on youtube and see he plays JPX EZ (before he had the 825s) and think, if he's saying he's moved to GI clubs and is benefitting from them, then I might be going down the wrong path as I play once a week and don't practice. No matter how decent a ball striker I think I might be, I'm sure I'm not as good as him.
JPX 825 pro are GI irons..
Allanxyz
Head Pro
I know, I'm not making out they are blades or anything... but there is a difference between 825 pros and JPX EZ... they are less GI than my old clubs and there are clubs out there that are more forgiving... whether GI or SGI... it's only words.
Basically, when I see pros using clubs more forgiving than mine I start to have doubts...
I wouldn't worry about what clubs Mark crossfield was playing
He played behind me at Nairn during the Scottish Open last year with the Mizuno Tour Van Staff and TBH most of them struck the ball better than him and they were not Pro's by any stretch of the Imag
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In answer to OP - Yes - by simply being too needy of instant success - preferring to try and buy new clubs rather than working at our game with what we have.
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
I think how you practice and what you practice are important, but they should be targeted to your game and available time amongst other things.
If a weakness is consistently costing you shots, then it may be time to address it, but practice what you need.
I've heard people make a case for practicing things you are good at in other sports over things you are not so good at. It's sort of a jack of all trades and master of none argument and is loosely based around using the Paretto (80-20) principle for training. An obvious example would be you struggle to draw it, but can fade it do you play with the fade and try to perfect it or do you spend time learning to draw it and then rarely use this shot as you don't really trust it under pressure.
I can also remember Mickleson in his Dvd suggesting his bunker play up and down ranking had improved by practicing more from 10 yards at the expense of other distances as this was the place that he and Pelz had identified was the most common bunker shot pros were left with.
Edit: I've also read something by a fitter along the lines of a cavity back is a cavity back a quantum leap in forgiveness from a blade, not that far apart from another cavity back.
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SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
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Hi Gareth: Roughly speaking where do you think the centre of gravity would be on that club I appreciate it's a 3D object fo an unusual shape and the cog may not even be on the club.
One Planer
Global Moderator
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
People often think the CoG is the centre of the club face, with irons you can get a pretty decent estimate of CoG by drawing a couple of lines on it and it tends not to be in the centre. This sweetspot is where you'd want any marks to be centred around assuming you're wanting centred impact.
If you like I could download that picture, draw a couple of lines and upload as you may find it interesting particuarly when compared to marks on the club.
