Do Folks Think This Is Acceptable?

[nemicu]

From the quote above , this does nothing at all for the game , acceptable by most courses ? My god , we are really entering into an area of discrimination , what next days for disabled/less fit people . If this is where we are headed just because someone wants to sprint round a course we are indeed in deep deep trouble . If this offends I am sorry but I feel all people whatever their physical condition/ability deserve equal consideration . I am glad where I play the people seem to be more caring than Nemicu .

I am disabled. I prefer equal consideration, but it's not always appropriate. I don't have a problem playing with an acceptable level of pace. I don't get offended if people address me in a certain tone. I'm able to call things as I see them - slow play is slow play however you want to dress it up. I don't expect anyone to show sympathy or make allowances if I'm lagging behind on a particularly difficult day, not that it makes a heap of difference. Slow play, or acceptance or endorsement of it either by action or inaction, knowingly or unknowingly, does nothing for the game of golf either. Should I accept that people are different? Of course I should - I'm living breathing proof of it. Does it then follow I should accept slow play is an inevitable consequence of being human? Absolutely not.
I'm tired of telling people to stop making excuses for physical ability, because I face it in every walk of life - let alone golf. When faced with something you actually can do something to prevent, regardless of your physical ability - it's something that should be embraced and welcomed - not frowned upon and ignored. Perhaps one day I may ask one of you lot if I can play through or perish the thought, speed up. Hopefully, you won't get too upset about it, or even worse, feel obliged or guilty to let a less abled golfer do something "normal" for a change. But one thing is for certain, I won't use my physical condition as an excuse for anything.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And the people that cant keep up with your expected pace of play through their own physical problems or illness - what woudl you like them to do ? Not play ?

I ebelieve you have missed the point entirely on this thread

The Op wasnt looking for excuses - he was fully aware of the pace of his play and allowed people to go through - that shows a good awareness and etiquette on a golf - thats spot on.

The game of golf is for all ages and physical abilities - the pace is dictated by the whole field - i have no usses with people playing slowly because they cant physical go any quicker - its not my place to judge them for that because i would prefer to see them out playing than be sat at home because they arent quick enough - the only thing i ever ask on a golf course is people are aware that if they are slow they allow others - the OP was aware and allowed others through - it wasnt a comp and i reckon any marshall would have been sympathic to their situation.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't expect anyone to show sympathy or make allowances if I'm lagging behind on a particularly difficult day, not that it makes a heap of difference. QUOTE]

So on slow days when you're holding up the course and lagging behind, I assume you let other quicker games through?

 

[nemicu]

And the people that cant keep up with your expected pace of play through their own physical problems or illness - what woudl you like them to do ? Not play ?

I ebelieve you have missed the point entirely on this thread

The Op wasnt looking for excuses - he was fully aware of the pace of his play and allowed people to go through - that shows a good awareness and etiquette on a golf - thats spot on.

The game of golf is for all ages and physical abilities - the pace is dictated by the whole field - i have no usses with people playing slowly because they cant physical go any quicker - its not my place to judge them for that because i would prefer to see them out playing than be sat at home because they arent quick enough - the only thing i ever ask on a golf course is people are aware that if they are slow they allow others - the OP was aware and allowed others through - it wasnt a comp and i reckon any marshall would have been sympathic to their situation.

If the OP wasn't looking for excuses, then why bother mentioning the conditions? Did it have any bearing on the question of the 3 ball, who incidentally had no knowledge of them either? Do my physical conditions have any relevance to this thread? No they don't.
To answer in summary, were the actions of the person in the 3 ball acceptable? Yes.
Unless of course, your feelings are easily hurt by words because you're insecure about your own actions - and subsequently you need to look to random strangers for support and justification that being admittedly slow is OK with everyone.
What next? Race, creed colour and it's role as an excuse for slow play? Maybe we could blame immigration?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So what do you do on bad days and by your own admission lagging behind. Do you and your group plough on at your pace or stop and let others through?

 

[nemicu]

I don't expect anyone to show sympathy or make allowances if I'm lagging behind on a particularly difficult day, not that it makes a heap of difference. QUOTE]

So on slow days when you're holding up the course and lagging behind, I assume you let other quicker games through?

Of course I do. Just not 4 of them in a round though - but if I did, I wouldn't get upset if someone had to ask and subsequently sulk for the rest of the round like it was their fault and not mine. 4 groups? was he wearing a diving suit?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If the OP wasn't looking for excuses, then why bother mentioning the conditions? Did it have any bearing on the question of the 3 ball, who incidentally had no knowledge of them either? Do my physical conditions have any relevance to this thread? No they don't.
To answer in summary, were the actions of the person in the 3 ball acceptable? Yes.
Unless of course, your feelings are easily hurt by words because you're insecure about your own actions - and subsequently you need to look to random strangers for support and justification that being admittedly slow is OK with everyone.
What next? Race, creed colour and it's role as an excuse for slow play? Maybe we could blame immigration?

On that note im out.

 

[oxymoron]

I think this should be closed , there is no reason to listen to anymore we all have our faults and views no matter how unsavoury others see them , I am astounded at the lack of compassion/understanding of some people , I hope some people will read this then take a look at themselves and their attitudes to others . I think we need to stop before it gets personall and abusive

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Of course I do. Just not 4 of them in a round though - but if I did, I wouldn't get upset if someone had to ask and subsequently sulk for the rest of the round like it was their fault and not mine. 4 groups? was he wearing a diving suit?

SO you do exactly as the OP does. Whether it's one group or four you and your disability is having an affect on the pace of play forcing you to let others through. To that extent you are exactly the same as the OP. Whether their ailments are more severe than your own disability isn't something that needs to be discussed or their merits compared. When you are having a bad day you're holding the course up too. If someone was rude in asking you to speed up or let them through, despite not having even completed the hole, I suspect you'd be far from happy. No doubt you'd point out the reason why pace was slow

 

[John Boy Saint]

Of course I do. Just not 4 of them in a round though - but if I did, I wouldn't get upset if someone had to ask and subsequently sulk for the rest of the round like it was their fault and not mine. 4 groups? was he wearing a diving suit?

Seeing as you are on a personal point scoring mission with this Thread let's forget my opening post for a moment and see where this takes you if all I had written was this as my opening post :

Played Hayling Island today in a four ball. We had struck lucky with the weather as the forecast no doubt put a few folks off and the course was quiet, from hole 6 to 12 there was no one behind us that we could see, as we trotted towards the green we noticed a 3 ball had caught us up very quickly indeed and were Teeing off.
Hole 13 is a blind shot up onto a dune, then unless you are a big hitter a blind shot to the green, once we had established the line to play to the green by taking a quick look we took our second shot the 3 ball were just walking onto the tee. We putted out the hole and the 3 ball were standing at their balls ready to play, we moved to the next tee and started Teeing off on the 14th, the 3 ball all played onto the green and one of them Putter in hand pushing his trolley walked towards the 14th Tee box, 60yards plus from the green his ball was on. When we had just finished Teeing off bluntly said to us "can you speed it up or call the faster group through, there is a 4 ball up behind us" and walked off (the 4 ball were not even on the 12th when we played our second on the 13th). He still had to putt out the 13th and we had Tee'd off on the 14th. We were already fully prepared to let them through as they were obviously much faster than us.

Now please analyse that nemicu.

 

[Sweep]

I have read it from top to tail - and clearly you've taken your normal know it all stance without reading the full thread. I'm fully aware of people and their physical and medical conditions, but not one of them - not one - can account for being so slow as to allow that many groups through - not even american tourists with one leg play that slowly.
To compound matters, the OP although aware of the nature of the slow pace of the rest of group, did nothing - nothing - to encourage a decent level of pace or otherwise act in a manner that was in keeping with section 1 (have you read it?) of the rules of golf.
They were in a complete bubble of their own (like your own) and showed a blatant disregard for the rest of the players out on the course - but we can't get their side of the story because your perceived idea of the OP's frailties prevent you from seeing the obvious. They were too slow. And the fact that anyone is actually endorsing their actions as a group is reprehensible (look it up). They were fully aware of nothing, other than their own small world. A bit like your own make-believe world of utopian golf.

What is the matter with you?
IF they were in a complete bubble, how did they get to let so many groups through?
They were too slow for who? They didn't hold anyone up.
Have you any idea of the meaning of the word reprehensible?
What is REALLY reprehensible is your view that anyone who cannot keep up a certain pace through age, illness etc should not be allowed on a golf course in case they hold anyone else up.
In your make believe world of utopian golf, everyone would play at the same pace - your pace. As I said before, it is never going to happen. It's about consideration and the OP and his group showed consideration.
Please, go and troll elsewhere.
Good grief!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree with this post.
Then again, the slow group could (and should) have handled it a lot better too perhaps. Once the 3 ball had ambled over to the tee, why not take the initiative and announce your intentions to let them through once you have teed off? It totally leaves the 3 ball with no come back other than a polite thank you.

Exactly what my group did on Saturday. We were 4 ball last out of our roll-out. In front were another two four balls and 3 three balls - solid. We waited to play our second to first, waited to tee off on second - so we knew we would probably be waiting all way round. We had spotted that a 3 ball had come up the 1st behind us and caught us up. As we walked off 2nd tee we went to 3 ball and said they could play through if they wanted but explained about the roll-up in front (which they knew about as we and they play same time every week). So we said alternatively that we'd let them through immediately we got into any bother. They went with that.

And so we basically played as quickly as we could. Playing when ready even if 'out of turn'; giving short putts even though we were in the roll-up stableford and should really have putted out (but no big deal); didn't bother spending much time looking for any provisional ball that looked likely to be lost etc; seriously chivvying along our slow guy. They caught us up but never asked to play through - they knew the situation, we had 'offered', and they could see that we were getting held up and hopefully saw what we were doing to keep things moving as quick as possible.

All in all I think it worked for them as best it could and we didn't feel too rushed. Maybe they should leave a bigger gap next week after we all go off and not tee off immediately after our last group.

Maybe a little bit the OP group could have done in communicating with the 3 ball a little bit better - and maybe a little bit the 3 ball could have done better in communicating with the OP group. It's good to talk - so if you know you are likely to hold up the following group then just speak with them asap.

 

[John Boy Saint]

Maybe a little bit the OP group could have done in communicating with the 3 ball a little bit better - and maybe a little bit the 3 ball could have done better in communicating with the OP group. It's good to talk - so if you know you are likely to hold up the following group then just speak with them asap.

Dont disagree with anything there. However on this occasion short of walking back up the fairway to communicate our intentions and wasting more time this was the first time we had been in speaking distance with the 3 ball: and the deed was done.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Dont disagree with anything there. However on this occasion short of walking back up the fairway to communicate our intentions and wasting more time this was the first time we had been in speaking distance with the 3 ball: and the deed was done.

Fair enough - I'm guessing that the 3 ball sussed out the pace of your group pretty quick so decided to be pro-active - which is fine - one party has to speak first. In slightly different timings of comings and goings of the two groups you may have been able to be pro-active yourself and go to them - but they got in first.

Problem with being a 'very' slow group is that even although you do all the right things as you were doing - even letting groups through as soon as you can causes delays - and each delay as you let a group through cascades back down through the following groups. So when you let 3 or 4 groups through the impact back down through following groups is cumulative.

All you can do is try and find a time when the tee is likely to be quiet behind you for half hour at least. I am guessing that some clubs will have a cutoff at which a group is deemed 'too slow' and can be asked to leave the course - and they will have this because of the cumulative knock-on/back effect of a group letting multiple following groups play through. A difficult one.

 

[londonlewis]

Don't look now - but here come the excuses...
knee surgery
heart bypass
cancer
not played the course before
age
etc.

we've probably heard similar, maybe more elaborate excuses too. Does that mean slow play is justified? I don't think it is to a large extent. Nobody has a "right" to play at whatever pace they like in disregard to all others ion the course.
Poor or rude behaviour on who's part? Clearly being slow and admitting it - and not allowing a faster group to tee off?
There are two sides to every coin. Clearly the OP's group had some reasoning behind their slow play, but it seems like they made no other effort to avoid it, other than allowing a few groups through. And when a clearly faster group approaches what do they do? Tee off rather than allowing them to play through. That is pretty stupid in my book.
Granted, the 3 ball behind might have seemed a little impatient - but as said there are two sides to every coin. Unacceptable to have to ask? Like I said, it's never a good sign when someone has to ask, or remind someone of their pace. And it would suggest they had to ask for a very good reason - they were painfully slow. I've got to honest, I've played at some courses were marshals would be having a word with the OP long before the 13th hole if they had let a number of groups through and their pace was clearly lethargic.
I'm not justifying anyones actions, I'm just saying there are two sides to every story. It's refreshing that someone actually admits to being slow though - 95% of slow golfers are blissfully unaware they are the problem.
But in summary, no- there isn't an excuse for slow play - and I've heard most of them.

It might just be me but this post makes you sound like a complete [Mod Edit].

PS. I love your made up statistic

 

[londonlewis]

Don't look now - the excuse police are at it again...
I would rather you understood the difference between slow play and pace of play - they are two entirely different things. Slow play is a mindset - it has nothing to do with age, ability, injury, fitness or any other physical condition - or the number of people in a group. Letting people through is not a cure for slow play - it is a consequence of it. The OP - by their own admission - stated they were slow. They gave plenty of mitigating excuses for this - as have you. Of the "excuses" given, none of them are an excuse for slow play in general. The very fact that someone had to ask them to speed up or let them through would suggest they are not completely the innocent victims here. But since you were there and saw the whole thing, we'll just assume the 3 ball in question were a bunch of arrogant and impatient sods....

Wow, you are 2 for 2 on the [Mod Edit] posts. Well done.

 

[londonlewis]

What? The fact the 3 ball where not even at or near the green and they still had time to get to the 4 ball and talk to them before they had even left the tee box? The painfully slow pace they took to perform a basic task like teeing off only demonstrates their true pace - slow. And then trying to seek the sympathy vote? Please.

3 for 3 nemicu. You are on fire!

I'm sure you are a lovely guy who everyone warms to but you come across as being a prat on this forum.
You also come across as quite condescending and I hope I never meet people like you on the course.

 

[londonlewis]

Unfortunately, I live in the real world rather than under the bridge. If the glut of slow play threads are anything to go by, it's fairly obvious you are pretty clueless to your own shortcomings. Maybe one day you will find a course that will close its tees to everyone else and roll out the red carpet to suit your own ends, but in the meantime it's probably better for all others to not have the misfortune to get stuck behind you.

Apologies to everyone for posting a response to each and every reply Nemicu has written, rather than doing a combined reply (I wasn't so many rude responses).

Nemicu - you really are something aren't you.

The OP has explained they were willing to let people through and had let people through. The group behind would have been let through either on the 14th or 15th when it was a good time to do so.

I would rather play behind the OPs group every day of the week than have to share a golf course with someone like you. I imagine the club house is a right barrel of laughs when you come in whinging about people on the course. But the fact that you seem to have zero sympathy for anyone with an ailment is even worse. I hope you have perfect health your whole life, or you don't come within 5 miles of a golf course if you do.

 

[Break90]

[Mod Edit]

 

[Fyldewhite]

Just read through this and I'm a bit gobsmacked really.

First, the OP. Yes, I do think the actions were acceptable providing they were not done in an overtly aggressive or impolite manner.....that goes for any conversation on a golf course but apparently not on here. The reason is that as a following group they would doubtless not know that you were letting groups through and let's face it, we've all been there when you get not even a glance from the slow group on the next tee as they march off down the fairway. So I think it's reasonable to make sure you are aware of their presence and that you are likely holding them up even if they haven't yet finished on the green etc.

Nemicu, I suggest you print this whole thread off and show it to your analyst. I've never seen such strongly made points be so far wide of the mark.