Do Folks Think This Is Acceptable?

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John Boy Saint

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Today 4 of us went to Hayling Island Golf course, it was the first time any of us had played there, we all have varying abilities in the upper half of the Handicap range, one of our party is recovering from Cancer (not that has any bearing for sympathy) another has had Heart bypass treatment and it's fair to say that both of them are slow on the golf course.
After the first hole despite being armed with a "street map" with the lack of rain recently everything was varying shades of light brown with the odd patch of green until the greens, which not knowing the course had us discussing the route when it wasn't clear, and from the Tee box especially with the gorse and ball eating rough all around coupled with greens behind dunes, which obviously slowed us down more. We were fully aware that this was adding to the slowness of our 4 and as other groups came up behind us we called them through with a friendly chat, all were members and very welcoming telling us to enjoy ourselves as they trundled past: just to repeat we were fully aware of our slow pace and behaved accordingly so as not to be a hinderance to quicker groups.

As we were closing out the 12th we noted that there was a 3 ball that had closed up on us immensely quickly. Even with a course guide the 13th (if any of you have played it is a great hole) is a voyage into the unknown as you play blindly up onto a hill/dune then unless you have a big drive in your armoury you drop down unsighted to the green. The guide offers very little guidance to the first time visitor to the course, so obviously you have a look to confirm what landmark is your line in, route established we played our 2nd onto the green, the fast 3 ball were just walking onto to Tee. As we putted out and quickly left the green each of the 3 was standing over their balls ready and played onto the green.
As we were Teeing off on the 14th one of the 3 had come down the hill and was stood ready to park his trolley next to the 14th Tee with his putter in his hand. His ball was still on the 13th green waiting to be putted out!!
When we had Tee'd off this chap (his ball still on the green ready for putting) said "can you speed it up or call the quicker group behind you through, there is a 4 ball behind us". (The 4 ball were not even on the Tee of the 12th when we played our second on the 13th!).
I have to say personally I thought that was unacceptable, and needless to say it affected the remaining holes of our round even after they had reached a mutually suitable position to be called through.
 
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Sounds totally uncalled for to be honest. Since as you say you were letting faster groups through, no doubt they would have been let through pretty soon without the need to say anything to you.
 

Gopher

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Were you keeping up with the group ahead of you.. the one you let through, or had you lost a lot of ground on them? Some people see a clear space ahead and think that it has to be filled immediately. If you can't keep up with the group ahead then at least you were doing the right thing and letting people through. I wouldn't worry, slow play with no consideration for others is rude and frustrating, but it sounds like you you were acting reasonably and the guy with the verbals was out of order.
 

Hacker Khan

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Take or leave us, only please believe us, but that ain't ever gonna be acceptable.

If you recognise you are slow and are doing all you can by calling people through then that's all you can do
 

nemicu

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just to repeat we were fully aware of our slow pace and behaved accordingly so as not to be a hinderance to quicker groups.
In that case, your response should have been "OK" and you wouldn't feel the request was unacceptable?
To be honest, nothing in the statement from the 3 ball behind you sounds unreasonable - and asking you while in the middle of their own round seems to suggest that they could see well in advance you were (by your own admission) slow.
There is never a right or wrong place for someone to have to ask a group ahead to speed up or let another group through - the sad fact is that they had to ask.
Maybe instead of teeing off, you should have stood aside and let them through? It's all very well calling into question the actions of another group, but if you have to ask yourself why, or worse seek the opinion of others to justify your own actions - you might have missed the real point. Which is there isn't really a genuine excuse for slow play - even though you seem to think there is.
 

drdel

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In that case, your response should have been "OK" and you wouldn't feel the request was unacceptable?
To be honest, nothing in the statement from the 3 ball behind you sounds unreasonable - and asking you while in the middle of their own round seems to suggest that they could see well in advance you were (by your own admission) slow.
There is never a right or wrong place for someone to have to ask a group ahead to speed up or let another group through - the sad fact is that they had to ask.
Maybe instead of teeing off, you should have stood aside and let them through? It's all very well calling into question the actions of another group, but if you have to ask yourself why, or worse seek the opinion of others to justify your own actions - you might have missed the real point. Which is there isn't really a genuine excuse for slow play - even though you seem to think there is.
The OP's group had every right to be playing at a pace that was within their capabilities - the fact that it was slower than other group does not mean they need an excuse and they accommodated the faster groups by allowing them through - your statement "...there isn't really a genuine excuse for slow play.." is totally misplaced an unreasonable.

I had a mate who was recovering from knee surgery - his play was slow so you're saying he had no excuse - how silly - its daft reasoning such as yours which leads to poor and rude behaviour on the course.

Clearly the 3-ball had the right to ask to play through but he could had been more diplomatic with is choice of words.
 

Doon frae Troon

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I fail to see how you could have been upset with the request to speed up or let the faster match through.
You were aware of your pace, the difficulties of the course and were acting accordingly. The three ball behind were not to know that.
Out of interest how long did your round take?
 

nemicu

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Don't look now - but here come the excuses...
knee surgery
heart bypass
cancer
not played the course before
age
etc.

we've probably heard similar, maybe more elaborate excuses too. Does that mean slow play is justified? I don't think it is to a large extent. Nobody has a "right" to play at whatever pace they like in disregard to all others ion the course.
Poor or rude behaviour on who's part? Clearly being slow and admitting it - and not allowing a faster group to tee off?
There are two sides to every coin. Clearly the OP's group had some reasoning behind their slow play, but it seems like they made no other effort to avoid it, other than allowing a few groups through. And when a clearly faster group approaches what do they do? Tee off rather than allowing them to play through. That is pretty stupid in my book.
Granted, the 3 ball behind might have seemed a little impatient - but as said there are two sides to every coin. Unacceptable to have to ask? Like I said, it's never a good sign when someone has to ask, or remind someone of their pace. And it would suggest they had to ask for a very good reason - they were painfully slow. I've got to honest, I've played at some courses were marshals would be having a word with the OP long before the 13th hole if they had let a number of groups through and their pace was clearly lethargic.
I'm not justifying anyones actions, I'm just saying there are two sides to every story. It's refreshing that someone actually admits to being slow though - 95% of slow golfers are blissfully unaware they are the problem.
But in summary, no- there isn't an excuse for slow play - and I've heard most of them.
 

Doon frae Troon

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The first words of training for my course marshall's were.......no one ever plays slowly on a golf course......There are just different degrees of slowness.
 

Foxholer

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Perfectly reasonable to be playing at the pace you were - as long as you let quicker groups through, It was a pleasure to play several holes with a known slow group of ladies, approaching/in their 80s, a couple of times.

Perfectly reasonable to request to be let through.

Poor, undiplomatic, choice of words when doing so though. Something along the lines of 'Any chance....' or 'Could we possibly.....'

Can't really see why it got to you though. Once they were gone, they were gone. And, given that all groups you mention were 4-balls, I repeat my 'challenge' as to who was the real 'problem' on the course - I think that, your admitted slow pace excepted, it was the 3-ball and their expectation to be let through by everyone! In those circumstances (a course full of 4-balls), I believe they should have been told not to expect to be let through by groups who are keeping up with the one in front, but to be grateful if it happens. When we play as a 3-ball, as long as the 4-ball in front is keeping up/well paced, we have absolutely to disrupt either group's round - and possibly more in front - by 'pushing through'. It's a round of Golf, not a race! If you are pushed for time, a round of Golf is a poor choice as a pre-cursive activity!
 

nemicu

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Perfectly reasonable to be playing at the pace you were - as long as you let quicker groups through, It was a pleasure to play several holes with a known slow group of ladies, approaching/in their 80s, a couple of times.

Perfectly reasonable to request to be let through.

Poor, undiplomatic, choice of words when doing so though. Something along the lines of 'Any chance....' or 'Could we possibly.....'

Can't really see why it got to you though. Once they were gone, they were gone. And, given that all groups you mention were 4-balls, I repeat my 'challenge' as to who was the real 'problem' on the course - I think that, your admitted slow pace excepted, it was the 3-ball and their expectation to be let through by everyone! In those circumstances (a course full of 4-balls), I believe they should have been told not to expect to be let through by groups who are keeping up with the one in front, but to be grateful if it happens. When we play as a 3-ball, as long as the 4-ball in front is keeping up/well paced, we have absolutely to disrupt either group's round - and possibly more in front - by 'pushing through'. It's a round of Golf, not a race! If you are pushed for time, a round of Golf is a poor choice as a pre-cursive activity!
Good answer.
Anyone who has played Hayling Island will know that the 13th green and the 14th tee are at the extreme end of the course - and are literally a matter of feet apart. Perhaps the 3 ball saw the group ahead some holes before and saw this as their only opportunity to ask. Perhaps also they had to ask because they were in disbelief you were actually about to tee off rather than invite them through?
That's right - invite them through. To be honest, if someone parked their trolley by the tee, then it would've been glaringly obvious given your acceptance of slow play.
The 3 ball could've used slightly better choice of words perhaps, but their actions were probably born of sheer frustration at your oversight. It's all very well letting groups through, but when they have to ask for the favour it's a bit poor form on the part of the group ahead. Remember that letting groups through is not an answer to slow play - only an acceptance of it.
 

Gazboy

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I don't know the course in question, but knowing the 3-ball were immensely quick and it would be inevitable that you'd have to let them through at some point, perhaps the 14th tee would have been the ideal opportunity to have a short break while the trio putted out and then tee'd off? I do think the chap with the trolley could have chosen pretty much any combination of words and sounded better than he did though and it is a shame that it played on your mind afterwards. :)
 
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John Boy Saint

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Don't look now - but here come the excuses...
knee surgery
heart bypass
cancer
not played the course before
age
etc.

we've probably heard similar, maybe more elaborate excuses too. Does that mean slow play is justified? I don't think it is to a large extent. Nobody has a "right" to play at whatever pace they like in disregard to all others ion the course.
Poor or rude behaviour on who's part? Clearly being slow and admitting it - and not allowing a faster group to tee off?
There are two sides to every coin. Clearly the OP's group had some reasoning behind their slow play, but it seems like they made no other effort to avoid it, other than allowing a few groups through. And when a clearly faster group approaches what do they do? Tee off rather than allowing them to play through. That is pretty stupid in my book.
Granted, the 3 ball behind might have seemed a little impatient - but as said there are two sides to every coin. Unacceptable to have to ask? Like I said, it's never a good sign when someone has to ask, or remind someone of their pace. And it would suggest they had to ask for a very good reason - they were painfully slow. I've got to honest, I've played at some courses were marshals would be having a word with the OP long before the 13th hole if they had let a number of groups through and their pace was clearly lethargic.
I'm not justifying anyones actions, I'm just saying there are two sides to every story. It's refreshing that someone actually admits to being slow though - 95% of slow golfers are blissfully unaware they are the problem.
But in summary, no- there isn't an excuse for slow play - and I've heard most of them.
So what you are saying (obviously not having read the point of the OP fully) is that because we knew that a faster group behind us was closing up on us, for their benefit we stop from teeing off and wait for them and admire their putting prowess twiddling our thumbs, even though they weren't all on the green putters at the ready to finish it out!!! These guys were against the stopwatch (is that acceptable?) for their round, we had held them up 3/4s of a hole at the most, if they had putted out the hole they were on by the time we had all Tee'd off we were already ready to step aside.

Isn't that just keeping the game moving?
 
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MC72

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It seems to me that all folks are suggesting is that there's a degree of common sense shown by those allowing others to play through as well as those wanting "to play through". The best time to do this is off the tee box, so although the group may have had to wait for the others to finish putting it was the most sensible and appropriate time for them to be allowed through.

So what you are saying (obviously not having read the point of the OP fully) is that because we knew that a faster group behind us was closing up on us, for their benefit we stop from teeing off and wait for them and admire their putting prowess twiddling our thumbs, even though they weren't all on the green putters at the ready to finish it out!!! These guys were against the stopwatch (is that acceptable?) for their round, we had held them up 3/4s of a hole at the most, if they had putted out the hole they were on by the time we had all Tee'd off we were already ready to step aside.
 

Foxholer

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So what you are saying (obviously not having read the point of the OP fully) is that because we knew that a faster group behind us was closing up on us, for their benefit we stop from teeing off and wait for them and admire their putting prowess twiddling our thumbs, even though they weren't all on the green putters at the ready to finish it out!!! These guys were against the stopwatch (is that acceptable?) for their round, we had held them up 3/4s of a hole at the most, if they had putted out the hole they were on by the time we had all Tee'd off we were already ready to step aside.

Isn't that just keeping the game moving?
A Tee is the obvious - and best (safest too) - place to get folk through! Previous Green is likely to be close by, so easy to invite them.

Tee off and wait, then let them through. Simples, no-fuss, 'thanks for the consideration, enjoy your round', everybody happy!
 

DCB

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If you are continually dropping off the pace of the group in front, and letting groups play through, I'd be wondering if a busy course on a Friday afternoon is the best choice of place and time to play. Everyone wants to enjoy their game, it must have affected your own enjoyment being faced with the added pressure of the faster groups coming up behind you.
 

Sweep

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Don't look now - but here come the excuses...
knee surgery
heart bypass
cancer
not played the course before
age
etc.

we've probably heard similar, maybe more elaborate excuses too. Does that mean slow play is justified? I don't think it is to a large extent. Nobody has a "right" to play at whatever pace they like in disregard to all others ion the course.
Poor or rude behaviour on who's part? Clearly being slow and admitting it - and not allowing a faster group to tee off?
There are two sides to every coin. Clearly the OP's group had some reasoning behind their slow play, but it seems like they made no other effort to avoid it, other than allowing a few groups through. And when a clearly faster group approaches what do they do? Tee off rather than allowing them to play through. That is pretty stupid in my book.
Granted, the 3 ball behind might have seemed a little impatient - but as said there are two sides to every coin. Unacceptable to have to ask? Like I said, it's never a good sign when someone has to ask, or remind someone of their pace. And it would suggest they had to ask for a very good reason - they were painfully slow. I've got to honest, I've played at some courses were marshals would be having a word with the OP long before the 13th hole if they had let a number of groups through and their pace was clearly lethargic.
I'm not justifying anyones actions, I'm just saying there are two sides to every story. It's refreshing that someone actually admits to being slow though - 95% of slow golfers are blissfully unaware they are the problem.
But in summary, no- there isn't an excuse for slow play - and I've heard most of them.
Wow. So in your book you have to be an athlete to pay golf? No disabled, slightly infirm, recovering from injury or illness. No older - because that alone takes out the vast majority of golfers. Seemingly everyone has to play at the pace of the fastest and as you say there is no excuse for slow play, even if the slow group don't hold anyone up.
What if they teed off and then stood aside, walked down the fairway with their new friends, let them complete the hole before playing their shot to the green? Would that be OK or would teeing off still be "pretty stupid" in your book?
Its not about pace. We are all never going to play at the same pace. It's about consideration.
 
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chrisd

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What if they teed off and then stood aside, walked down the fairway with their new friends, let them complete the hole before playing their shot to the green? Would that be OK or would teeing off still be "pretty stupid" in your book?
Its not about pace. We are all never going to play at the same pace. It's about consideration.

Spot on!

If I was on the tee and intending to call the group behind through I would always tee off, stand aside while they teed off and walk down with them until we were well short of their first to play, and then let them move off, why? because it's quicker for the next group behind and puts you in a good position on the hole
 

CMAC

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so did you let them through?

They were quicker, they were waiting on shots, you know you are slow (perfectly acceptable), you've let ppl thru already, so whats the issue? let them through as well.
 

moogie

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Spot on!

If I was on the tee and intending to call the group behind through I would always tee off, stand aside while they teed off and walk down with them until we were well short of their first to play, and then let them move off, why? because it's quicker for the next group behind and puts you in a good position on the hole


This ^^^^ is the way to do it
Totally agree :thup:
 
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