Different pros giving different advice

[G1z1]

Just looking for a few opinions please. At my local club i get lessons from the pro, he videos my swing and my bad shot is a slice because i come over the top. So local pro says on my backswing i really need to feel as if im throwing the club behind me.
I am currently having a overnight at trump turnberry and had a lesson before my round yesterday, told the pro i slice the ball because im coming over the top any chance he could try give me a few tips. Also mentioned the pro im working with said about throwing the club behind me to help fix it and pro at turnberry said no thats the worst thing to do. He was saying if i throw club behind me then im stuck there and only way to go after that is come over the top. So he had me throwing the club more out in front of me and up so there was room to pull my right elbow in on the downswing. I was struggling with this as it was only a 30 min lesson but i felt as if it did make sense what he was saying.
So now im thinking should i be looking for a new pro back home ? Because i feel as if thats the only real problem i have with my game the now.

 

[bobmac]

The over the top move is very common and there are many ways you can try to fix it but...
The bottom line is what happens on the downswing is the important bit.
That is determined by what happens in the transition which MIGHT be affected by the backswing.
My opinion is you could do what both pros say but if you get the transition wrong, you will still come over the top.
As I said, this is a very common move but it's also very hard to fix.
3 questions if I may...
1. How bad is the slice
2. How determined are you to fix it
3. How often do you practice, because this will need a lot of practice to sink in.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Read "The Plane Truth" by Jim Hardy. He explains that there are two types of swing. "One Plane" where shoulders & arms are on the same plane at the top, like Rory / Ernie Els & "Two Plane" where the arms are on a much steeper plan than the shoulders, like Bubba Watson. He explains that the basics of these two swings are completely different, which is the reason, I am convinced, that advice you get conflicts.

The pro telling you to get the club behind you is teaching a one plane swing, which is relatively flat. The second pro is definitely trying to get you to swing two plane. In his book Hardy makes the point that, in a two plane swing, the club stays in front of you.

Have a look down the line at the top of your swing. If the arms & shoulders are more or less level you are naturally a one plane swinger. If your arms are much higher, i.e. steeper swing, you're naturally a two planer.

Hardy also explains how one planers naturally hit the ball straighter because the face is square to the swing path at impact longer than a two plane swinger, which is why the likes of Bubba are forced to shape the ball.

There is likely to be a Plane Truth qualified pro near you. Just do a Google search or look at:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/883211211732649?group_view_referrer=search

 

[G1z1]

The over the top move is very common and there are many ways you can try to fix it but...
The bottom line is what happens on the downswing is the important bit.
That is determined by what happens in the transition which MIGHT be affected by the backswing.
My opinion is you could do what both pros say but if you get the transition wrong, you will still come over the top.
As I said, this is a very common move but it's also very hard to fix.
3 questions if I may...
1. How bad is the slice
2. How determined are you to fix it
3. How often do you practice, because this will need a lot of practice to sink in.

1. Is never really a problem with my irons very rare i slice an iron, problem is with my hybrid,wood and driver. over 18 holes usually around 2/4 bad slices that can very easily result in a lost ball.
2. very determined lol want to be single figure handicap within two years of playing. I have quite a competitive nature so i am determined to make a good golfer and have all the time to put into it. Currently play 7 days a week and play 36 holes on the odd day.
3. Don’t actually practice at a range that much really. I practice on the course, I’ll always try and get out first in the morning my course is usually quite, so sometimes have a few holes with 2/3 balls. Have one lesson a week and maybe go to the range once every 3/4 weeks.

 

[Neilds]

1. Is never really a problem with my irons very rare i slice an iron, problem is with my hybrid,wood and driver. over 18 holes usually around 2/4 bad slices that can very easily result in a lost ball.
2. very determined lol want to be single figure handicap within two years of playing. I have quite a competitive nature so i am determined to make a good golfer and have all the time to put into it. Currently play 7 days a week and play 36 holes on the odd day.
3. Don’t actually practice at a range that much really. I practice on the course, I’ll always try and get out first in the morning my course is usually quite, so sometimes have a few holes with 2/3 balls. Have one lesson a week and maybe go to the range once every 3/4 weeks.

In my humble opinion, you will never cure your fault with this 'practice' regime. It takes time to retrain your swing and this can really only be done on the range with repetition. I would suggest you cut back on the course, do soo more range work and also spread the lessons out a bit, maybe every 2 weeks, so you can properly practice what you are being taught. And also, if you don't fully understand why you are being asked to change something, ask the pro - lessons are very much a two way process.

 

[bobmac]

Thanks for your reply.
As I've said, to fix the over the top (OTT) move takes practice but it will be range practice then course practice.
But there is no short cut to a good swing.
Unless.....
You perfect the OTT move so it happens every time, then you just learn to aim left and live with the fade.
Plenty of top players play with a fade so it certainly won't stop you from getting to single figures.

 

[harpo_72]

Thanks for your reply.
As I've said, to fix the over the top (OTT) move takes practice but it will be range practice then course practice.
But there is no short cut to a good swing.
Unless.....
You perfect the OTT move so it happens every time, then you just learn to aim left and live with the fade.
Plenty of top players play with a fade so it certainly won't stop you from getting to single figures.

Bob, can the OTT be also a result of another issue ?

 

[Foxholer]

...
3. Don’t actually practice at a range that much really. I practice on the course, I’ll always try and get out first in the morning my course is usually quite, so sometimes have a few holes with 2/3 balls. Have one lesson a week and maybe go to the range once every 3/4 weeks.

That's not 'practice' that's going to change your swing the way you need to! To change your swing in the way you are hoping to do, you need to do it on the range, then confirm it from results on the course! All you are doing, by simply hitting several balls while on the course, is ingraining (or perhaps destroying) your existing swing. It's the range work that will ingrain the 'new' swing! Only after a (successful) range session should you play a few holes and confirm that the changes have become 'natural'!
As for the conflict/difference of opinion/teaching between the 2 Pros...that is not uncommon and,as MiB stated, is often because they have different concepts of what a 'proper' swing should be. I'd suggest you continue with your own Club Pro, though mention your experience with the other one. Your Club Pro should have a 'plan', albeit maybe one only he knows about, and is far better placed to see that plan through! Don't be frightened to ask him to explain (in detail) WHY he is asking you to make changes though! With the (why) knowledge he transfers, you should be able to correct any slippage back to 'old swing' should that happen.

 

[bobmac]

Bob, can the OTT be also a result of another issue ?

Too many to mention but without seeing the ops swing it's impossible to know what he does.

I'd suggest you continue with your own Club Pro

A complete waste of time if the OP doesn't practice.

 

[sweaty sock]

If your at the course every day, change your regime to 30 mins hitting balls then 9 holes and then 30 more minutes of hitting balls.

Make sure tge first 30 mins isnt a warm up, it should be targeted practice at the change you are trying to make. On the course make a practice swing with the change for every shot, the 30 mins at the end should be target based and more difficult, i.e. have a harder to achieve goal that really tests the movement, i.e. hit 5 in a row with driver that dont move right..


Tell your pro thats what your going to do, ask for advice on what each practice session could contain. Id bet they would turn up more than once too see how you're getting on!!

 

[Foxholer]

...
A complete waste of time if the OP doesn't practice.

Agreed! And, as I posted, it's range work that's the key, not what he has been doing - though that is 'healthy', as it confirms (hopefully) the results of the range work and 'relieves' any monotony that range work alone tends to induce.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Find this very interesting just now. In the last ten days, I changed the backswing to "feel like throwing.......", I.e flatter take away.
Combined that with swing thought being, "put that right shoulder low on the downswing ", and the hits really have improved.
Have gone two plane ( badly) to one plane, methinks.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I struggle with downswing thoughts/movements(ie. I could not swing whilst thinking about throw the club behind, far to clunky movements for me to swing with), think I am more a visual person, so like to think about getting the clubhead along a line or back of the left hand facing the target at impact or a similar thought.

Over a couple of months I went from about 10 out to in(combined with a open clubface normally meant wild right hits or big pulls), to now at low numbers or neutral path with a closed clubface. I mainly practised on the course(and a bit in the garden with foam as well), multiple practise swings. I concentrated on watching the path of the clubhead though the hit zone(and let the body/arms make that happen). I tried to high high draws on the course (that was interesting for a while!! until the path got better

You need to work out how you work and how you can get certain movements to make you more consistent or play as bob says in post 6.

 

[Jensen]

I had a lesson about a month ago and the pro told me to record myself if I could. Fantastic advice, when I replayed it, despite thinking I was doing something different, I wasn’t.
Feel and real are completely different. Recorded a practice session last week and it’s invaluable to actually see what you are doing.
A picture does paint a thousand words.
My recording was nothing flash, merely an iPhone rested on my trolley.

 

[Depreston]

but do you come over the top because the clubface is open.... or is your clubface open because you come over the top.

crack that quandary and you'll fix it.

 

[bobmac]

I would say 99% of the time the face is open due to the out to in swing path

 

[Depreston]

I would say 99% of the time the face is open due to the out to in swing path

Interesting i know a fair few of the youtuber coaches would disagree.

Not saying i do ha i'm just a weekend hacker. but it always fascinates me how one coach views the possible fixes to a problem completely different to another

 

[bobmac]

If your swing path is 30 yards left of the target, your subconscious feels that and stops the release, holding the clubface open to the path.
I've never met anyone who started with an open clubface then swung left to stop it going right because it doesn't work, it just makes it worse.