Countback............. !

[HawkeyeMS]

At my previous club any tied board comps went to an 18 hole play off the following day.

How does that work if the following day is a Monday and I have to go to work?

 

[Mike_j_golf]

how about odds and evens that way the score is spread thru the round and could be done random each week.
Mike

 

[rosecott]

how about odds and evens that way the score is spread thru the round and could be done random each week.
Mike

Not sure what you mean - surely the odds are on one nine and the evens on the other. Or did you mean front nine one week and back nine the other?

 

[Imurg]

Another option would be to have the countback based on the SI, whereby the team playing SI1-9 the best wins, then down to 1-6, then 1-3.

Ok similar to the normal countback, but at least it would be based on the tougher holes (ish).

Here we go again - the myth of the relationship between SI numbers and difficulty. If the club has followed CONGU guidelines, then SI 1 to 9 could well not be the 9 most difficult holes.

Rosie - this isn't a myth - it's a fact at a very large number of clubs.
CONGU might have guidelines for SI allocation but a significant number, possibly even a majority, of clubs allocate SI by hole difficulty.
That's the way it is, whether it should be or not. And although 2 sets of SI can be used, again, the vast majority don't.

What facts do you have to support your statement that possibly a majority of clubs do not follow the CONGU guidelines? You are falling into the trap of believing the folklore that SI1 is always the hardest (?) hole on the course.

If you read the post is says "a significant number, possibly even a majority" - I don't have proof which is why I use the word "possibly" - meaning maybe, but maybe not.

OK.
Not the largest sample but all 3 clubs with the name Aylesbury in their name have SI 1 as the hardest hole on the course.
Bowood has SI 1 as the 17th - against CONGU guidelines.....
Bowood has SI 8 as the 1st hole - against CONGU guidelines
Bearwood Lakes - 18th is SI 8 - against CONGU guidelines....
Camberley Heath has SI 2 allocated to the 10th - against CONGU guidelines
Forest of Arden has SI 2 allocated to the 9th
Woburn Dukes doesn't allocate evens SI to one 9 and odd SI to the other.
Sunningdale New allocates SI 8 to the 1st and SI 7 to the 18th
Swinley Forest allocates SI 5 to the 1st
The Harleyford allocates SI 8 to the 19th

And that's just from scorecards I've got.

Face it - many, many clubs do not follow the CONGU guidelines - becasue they're guidelines....

SI 1 isn't always allocated to the hardest hole - but it often is. If guidelines are not being followed rigidly by these top clubs then lesser clubs could be being even less rigid about complying.
Do you have proof that they mostly do?

Maybe you're falling for the myth that in the real world everyone follows the rules

 

[Foxholer]

I meant my "cancel the thread" to be comical and, for the record, not the way you interpreted it!

I think you need to use Smileys then!

I did post 'Sarcasm notwithstanding...' btw - so was covering both interpretations.

 

[Hobbit]

How does that work if the following day is a Monday and I have to go to work?

All the comps are Saturday. But as Chrisd suggested they have actually relaxed it further to allow those that can't play on the Sunday to arrange the game when it best suits both parties... can you believe it... a committee endowed with commonsense!!

 

[Foxholer]

a committee endowed with commonsense!!

It'll never catch on!

 

[rosecott]

Do you have proof that they mostly do?

No, I don't, but, unlike you, I didn't claim to know. Maybe I'll have a look at local scorecards and see if clubs in the Midlands are more law abiding.

 

[williamalex1]

What facts do you have to support your statement that possibly a majority of clubs do not follow the CONGU guidelines? You are falling into the trap of believing the folklore that SI1 is always the hardest (?) hole on the course.

why not have a forum survey . is s.i.1- the hardest hole on the front 9 -and s.i.2 hardest on back 9 or vice versa what ever the case maybe on your course

 

[Smiffy]

The back 9, 6, 3, 1 is in my mind the most fair way to do it. Peoples games have warmed up, the round is well underway and a good player needs to start hot AND finish strong.

That's fine if everybody tee's off the 1st. What if there is a large field, and half tee off the 10th? Their front 9 would have been the other guys back 9. Bit of an unfair advantage no????

 

[rosecott]

why not have a forum survey . is s.i.1- the hardest hole on the front 9 -and s.i.2 hardest on back 9 or vice versa what ever the case maybe on your course

Who decides which holes are the hardest? We have 4 candidates for the top 2 spots.

 

[pbrown7582]

That's fine if everybody tee's off the 1st. What if there is a large field, and half tee off the 10th? Their front 9 would have been the other guys back 9. Bit of an unfair advantage no????

hadn't thought of this when this thread started or even, how more unfair countback is in a shotgun start.

 

[Smiffy]

hadn't thought of this when this thread started or even, how more unfair countback is in a shotgun start.

I love shotgun starts!! Especially when you are drawn off the 3rd at Bearwood Lakes and they have the nearest the pin competition on that one. The toughest par 3 on the course and it's your first shot of the day......cushty!

 

[chrisd]

I think you need to use Smileys then!

I did post 'Sarcasm notwithstanding...' btw - so was covering both interpretations.

Like everything, I guess things are always being read differently than the poster intended. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[JezzE]

What facts do you have to support your statement that possibly a majority of clubs do not follow the CONGU guidelines? You are falling into the trap of believing the folklore that SI1 is always the hardest (?) hole on the course.

From my experience, Imurg is right and contrary to CONGU guidelines somewhere between 'a number' and 'many' clubs do have SIs that are based largely or exclusively on hole difficulty, often based around computer stats for each hole. Indeed, I would say that at my home club, SIs are almost entirely on hole difficulty

 

[chrisd]

Having read the replies I wonder whether countback on a set number of 9 holes out of the 18 might be better. So, say holes 1 3 5 8 10 12 15 16 and 18 (please dont argue over this random selection) this would mean that a 2 tee start, such as ours was, wouldn't be significantly harmful to the 10th tee starters and would be more likely to cover a spread of the holes without necessarily picking lower (or higher) stroke indexes. I should add that our 10th, a par 5 is the only really birdeable par 5, but generally only when warmed up after the first 9

It would still have the element of luck that is probably what I dislike about countback, as good play doesn't seperate teams but just where on the course you happened to have the good play!

 

[Foxholer]

No, I don't, but, unlike you, I didn't claim to know. Maybe I'll have a look at local scorecards and see if clubs in the Midlands are more law abiding.

I think you mean RECOMMENDATION abiding. http://www.scottishgolf.org/files/STROKE_INDICES.pdf

I don't believe The Old Course follows the recommendation - certainly didn't when I last played it a few years ago. There are certainly arguments for and against them. Each course/club should assess its own layout imo. Of the 2 courses I know the SIs by heart, neither has followed the recommendations totally. One ranks them on difficulty (Stableford SI) and the other has SI 1 as 2nd hole. It's neither the hardest nor near the centre of the front 9.

And any method of determining a winner, other than an 18 hole play-off, is going to be arguably unfair imo. But, as it's known when you enter, it's equitable.

 

[williamalex1]

Who decides which holes are the hardest? We have 4 candidates for the top 2 spots.

the stats should decide which holes have been the hardest on each 9. surely they can't be exactly the the samefor each of your candidates. and on the same 9. if so then the s.i. should be 1-3-5-7or 2-4-6-8

 

[Liverbirdie]

Instead of countback, you receive penalty points if:-

1. You have a chipper.
2. You have any white headed clubs.
3. You have a ball retriever.
4. You have a magnetic hat clip.
5. You have white trousers, with washed in stains.
6. You have any orange/lime green apparel.
7. You have an "old course" St. Andres bag towel. (I have one).
8. You have an "old course" St. Andrews bag towel, and have never played it. (counts as two).
9. You have a lucozade/powerade bottle on show.

Any others?

 

[chrisd]

Instead of countback, you receive penalty points if:-

1. You have a chipper.
2. You have any white headed clubs.
3. You have a ball retriever.
4. You have a magnetic hat clip.
5. You have white trousers, with washed in stains.
6. You have any orange/lime green apparel.
7. You have an "old course" St. Andres bag towel. (I have one).
8. You have an "old course" St. Andrews bag towel, and have never played it. (counts as two).
9. You have a lucozade/powerade bottle on show.

Any others?

No penalty points for me in that lot!