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Comments/Accusations about other people's handicaps

KenL said:
Most of us play the game fairly. However, there ARE people who are at it!

At my last club a chap (who had just won our open) was heard to say that he played in very few medals so that he would have a better chance of winning opens.

Also another who rocked up with a 28 handicap and won with a nett 58. That was probably the club's fault for allowing people to play off such a high handicap.
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I am surprised that it is so easy to manage one's handicap by playing just three poor rounds a year. Surely it is time for golf handicapping to be re-assessed so that every competition counts.
 
guest100718 said:
There certianly is the odd handicap protector out there. I think I played one this year..

Also bandit tags seems to be reserved for higher handicappers. shoot 5 under your handicap off 25 and your a bandit, do it off 9 and its a great round..

odd
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Couldn't agree more, I play off 16 and went out for a knock about with a work colleague a couple of weeks back who plays off 9, I more than held my own over the round, he came in with a 77, I came in with an 86, I even beat him shot for shot on several holes, we then went out a couple of days later and I had a complete train wreck of a round, couldn't of hit a decent shot if me life had counted on it, that's exactly why I and a lot of others play off higher handicaps.

One good round doth not a scratch golfer make...:thup:
 
KenL said:
Most of us play the game fairly. However, there ARE people who are at it!

At my last club a chap (who had just won our open) was heard to say that he played in very few medals so that he would have a better chance of winning opens.

Also another who rocked up with a 28 handicap and won with a nett 58. That was probably the club's fault for allowing people to play off such a high handicap.
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Limiting handicaps is completely the wrong approach. Run events as Q events is the long term solution - it's a pretty solid short term one too as most of those who are at it won't enter.
 
Ignoring cheats, the problem with handicaps is that every improving golfer is really a bandit (depending on your definition of bandit) with a wrong handicap, as handicaps always lag behind your scores and they are better than their handicap.

Take it as a compliment, as you are improving and once you level off, get use to not winning.:(
 
It happens - my view is if you're playing well and under your handicap then you're playing well against your standard and will get deducted accordingly. Take them as a pinch of salt - the majority will notice that you're practicing hard and looking to improve so they will congratulate you with it!

End of it day -people will do anything to reflect away from their bad performance.

Funny game is golf!

Well done on your progress! Its good to hear!
 
It happens the other way round though sometimes. A friend of mine joined our club after taking some lessons. He is still learning and as such he scores about 110 avg score. His very best round our place was 103. He does get the odd par and even birdied a par 3 however he not unsually blows up on a couple of holes and a 10 on the card is not unusual. His 3 cards he submitted were 103, 109 and 119. They gave him a handicap of 26. They initially tried to give him a handicap of 23(one less than myself! who, very smugly, hasn't hit over 100 in about 6 rounds). He argued the toss and the explanation was that they took his best card took off all the double bogeys and then took off a further 10%?? how is that possible and what's the point of the other 3 cards if they are going to do that. He'll obviously improve with further lessons, but there's no incentive for him to enter a competition and pay for it if he has no chance of coming close to winning. We said to him that it felt like he was being jipped.
 
Senseicads said:
It happens the other way round though sometimes. A friend of mine joined our club after taking some lessons. He is still learning and as such he scores about 110 avg score. His very best round our place was 103. He does get the odd par and even birdied a par 3 however he not unsually blows up on a couple of holes and a 10 on the card is not unusual. His 3 cards he submitted were 103, 109 and 119. They gave him a handicap of 26. They initially tried to give him a handicap of 23(one less than myself! who, very smugly, hasn't hit over 100 in about 6 rounds). He argued the toss and the explanation was that they took his best card took off all the double bogeys and then took off a further 10%?? how is that possible and what's the point of the other 3 cards if they are going to do that. He'll obviously improve with further lessons, but there's no incentive for him to enter a competition and pay for it if he has no chance of coming close to winning. We said to him that it felt like he was being jipped.
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It's not necessarily 10% but the explanation he was given sounds like the correct system that every other golfer now has their handicap allocated by.
 
duncan mackie said:
It's not necessarily 10% but the explanation he was given sounds like the correct system that every other golfer now has their handicap allocated by.
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So why did he need to hand in 3 cards? Why didn't he just pick any card, or his best card and hand that in. I mean there's no way he can play to a 28 currently never mind and lower. If he was a lady golfer he would have been off 32 or similar. I don't think he is planning on any life altering surgery for the benefit of his golf though! :)
 
Senseicads said:
It happens the other way round though sometimes. A friend of mine joined our club after taking some lessons. He is still learning and as such he scores about 110 avg score. His very best round our place was 103. He does get the odd par and even birdied a par 3 however he not unsually blows up on a couple of holes and a 10 on the card is not unusual. His 3 cards he submitted were 103, 109 and 119. They gave him a handicap of 26. They initially tried to give him a handicap of 23(one less than myself! who, very smugly, hasn't hit over 100 in about 6 rounds). He argued the toss and the explanation was that they took his best card took off all the double bogeys and then took off a further 10%?? how is that possible and what's the point of the other 3 cards if they are going to do that. He'll obviously improve with further lessons, but there's no incentive for him to enter a competition and pay for it if he has no chance of coming close to winning. We said to him that it felt like he was being jipped.
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That's the thing troubles me sometimes.... why should you feel like you should be able to win??

surly the objective is to play as well as you can and enjoy it with the chance of getting a cut if you play well.

When is started, i had no aspirations of winning anything, i just wanted to get better. My first handicap was 24, i was over the moon with that as was shooting in the high 90's with the odd three figure score thrown in (didn't know about nothing worse than DB counting)
 
Senseicads said:
So why did he need to hand in 3 cards? Why didn't he just pick any card, or his best card and hand that in. I mean there's no way he can play to a 28 currently never mind and lower. If he was a lady golfer he would have been off 32 or similar. I don't think he is planning on any life altering surgery for the benefit of his golf though! :)
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Even with life altering surgery, if he put the same cards in he would get the same handicap as a lady, not 32.

You put 3 cards in so that the handicap secretary can look at the cards for any trend, or other possibly relevant element to the allocation but generally the simple system derived handicap will be allocated. You will normally have to improve from the allocated handicap in order to win - but the vast majority of people do, and most do so by a considerable amount!

It can't be a science because one player will start golf at a club a and pretty much put in his first 3 rounds ever - another will join after 30 years of social golf when they retire (or triggered by some other life event) and may struggle (in which case the system will give him some and a review may give more pretty quickly nowadays).

The new principle sets the bar a step ahead of the current capability and has been broadly welcomed.
 
Senseicads said:
So why did he need to hand in 3 cards? Why didn't he just pick any card, or his best card and hand that in. I mean there's no way he can play to a 28 currently never mind and lower. If he was a lady golfer he would have been off 32 or similar. I don't think he is planning on any life altering surgery for the benefit of his golf though! :)
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I suspect that the rationale is that players submitting cards for initial allocation will predominantly be new to golf and they would be unlikely to know how the scores on the cards are adjusted before being used. What the player thinks is the best card may not be so when the adjustments have been made.
 
Young players new to golf generally improve.

Old players with many years of golf generally don't improve.
Many just get bitter and jealous of improving young guys. [Scale of +3 for women's golf]
The good old guys don't.

Advice, play with the good old guys/gals, ignore the others.
 
Its never an accusation I would fire at anyone, I've only come across one genuine cheat (with regards to handicap) in all the 25 or so years that I've been playing and people knew for a fact that he was at it, so it wasn't even an accusation.

People's handicaps fluctuate wildly at times, I myself was up to 12 around 5 or 6 years ago (having not played for about 5 years) and have slowly worked my way back down to somewhere around 5.

I have had the accusation levelled at me as a junior though and it's certainly not a nice thing to have said about you (especially by adult members as a kid).

I play regularly with a guy who is now playing off around 20 and he hits the ball like a single figure handicapper, genuinely. However, he has the worst short game I've ever seen. Probably the one day that he will hole a few putts, he'll hit it all over the course, that's why he plays off 20.
 
In my experience most accusations of banditry happen as a result of, or during, matchplay, stableford or 4BBB.

In matchplay the mutterings I have found to often be by a much lower handicap player giving lots of shots not playing very well - the muttering is often thrown up as a deflecting excuse for losing or playing poorly.

In stableford it's usually the number of points scored in total that elicit the comments - but of course we all know that the pressures playing stableford golf are nothing like what they are in strokeplay - never mind qualifying strokeplay comps.

In 4BBB the high handicapper has pressure taken off him by a lower handicap partner, and as a result is more relaxed and hence more able to play his best shots more frequently.

So dear OP - as all have said. It's not you.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
In my experience most accusations of banditry happen as a result of, or during, matchplay, stableford or 4BBB.

In matchplay the mutterings I have found to often be by a much lower handicap player giving lots of shots not playing very well - the muttering is often thrown up as a deflecting excuse for losing or playing poorly.

In stableford it's usually the number of points scored in total that elicit the comments - but of course we all know that the pressures playing stableford golf are nothing like what they are in strokeplay - never mind qualifying strokeplay comps.

In 4BBB the high handicapper has pressure taken off him by a lower handicap partner, and as a result is more relaxed and hence more able to play his best shots more frequently.

So dear OP - as all have said. It's not you.
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Pretty much this ^^^ in my experience. Usually a low hcp running into a high hcp who is rapidly improving.

The year I dropped about 10 shots, and pretty much placed in every comp, I drew the club captain who was off about 5 in the singles matchplay and I was still of about 20, but playing to probably a 12. He pretty much said he had no hope. But that's because he knew how much work I'd been putting in and how rapidly I was improving.
 
Westy said:
Pretty much this ^^^ in my experience. Usually a low hcp running into a high hcp who is rapidly improving.

The year I dropped about 10 shots, and pretty much placed in every comp, I drew the club captain who was off about 5 in the singles matchplay and I was still of about 20, but playing to probably a 12. He pretty much said he had no hope. But that's because he knew how much work I'd been putting in and how rapidly I was improving.
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Oh were everyone as understanding, accepting and generous as your Captain. But did you win? :)
 
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