Club fitting. Nobody does it right.

[ManinBlack]

I've had a couple of driver fittings before, both on a GC 2. One resulted in me buying an entirely unsuitable shaft, which launched far to high for my bare, windswept course. To me, the most important thing with a driver is how far it goes into the wind. If I have another fitting I will ask to have the machine set so that I am hitting into a 20 mph headwind and choose the shaft / head combination that gets the ball the furthest. If that means I lose a few yards in calm conditions or downwind what does that matter? I can probably reach most par 4s in those conditions anyway. The big problem is a long par 4 into the wind, where an extra 10 or 15 yards could make the difference between hitting the green & coming up short. With my short game this is very important!

I've never met a fitter who approached fitting in this way. And perhaps someone like Nosevi could confirm whether the GC2 can be configured to produce a realistic headwind.

 

[garyinderry]

A fitter will always try and marry a good launch angle and spin rate. either of these too high will be no good into the wind.


Of your launch is too low with low spin on a soft ground day you won't max distance.
Likewise if you launch too high and spin too high on a hard ground day again you might limit total distance due to reduced roll.

 

[Nosevi]

I've had a couple of driver fittings before, both on a GC 2. One resulted in me buying an entirely unsuitable shaft, which launched far to high for my bare, windswept course. To me, the most important thing with a driver is how far it goes into the wind. If I have another fitting I will ask to have the machine set so that I am hitting into a 20 mph headwind and choose the shaft / head combination that gets the ball the furthest. If that means I lose a few yards in calm conditions or downwind what does that matter? I can probably reach most par 4s in those conditions anyway. The big problem is a long par 4 into the wind, where an extra 10 or 15 yards could make the difference between hitting the green & coming up short. With my short game this is very important!

I've never met a fitter who approached fitting in this way. And perhaps someone like Nosevi could confirm whether the GC2 can be configured to produce a realistic headwind.

Hi Maninblack, only just got your PM. The answer is yes - the GC2 can be used to assess how your shots perform into the wind but you need to be on the PC software not just the ipad fitting software. It's not perfect in that it's not configurable, you just select strong, medium or light wind when you set up for the range and it puts a wind on at that level from a random direction. You then just point yourself into that wind and crack on. Seems about spot on for my shots, ball performs as I'd expect.

What garyinderry has said above is spot on - any fitting should be looking at the spin as well as the launch angle and, although launch angle is important, it's the spin that really kills you into the wind, it's the spin that'll cause the ball to 'balloon' then stall. I launch the ball pretty high but get away with hitting into a reasonable wind as I have pretty low spin. I use a low lofted driver (9 degree G30 adjusted to 8 degrees) and hit up on the ball a tad - this minimises the spin which keeps the ball flight neutral (ie a gentle curve not a balloon and stall) even into the wind.

 

[ManinBlack]

Hi Maninblack, only just got your PM. The answer is yes - the GC2 can be used to assess how your shots perform into the wind but you need to be on the PC software not just the ipad fitting software. It's not perfect in that it's not configurable, you just select strong, medium or light wind when you set up for the range and it puts a wind on at that level from a random direction. You then just point yourself into that wind and crack on. Seems about spot on for my shots, ball performs as I'd expect.

What garyinderry has said above is spot on - any fitting should be looking at the spin as well as the launch angle and, although launch angle is important, it's the spin that really kills you into the wind, it's the spin that'll cause the ball to 'balloon' then stall. I launch the ball pretty high but get away with hitting into a reasonable wind as I have pretty low spin. I use a low lofted driver (9 degree G30 adjusted to 8 degrees) and hit up on the ball a tad - this minimises the spin which keeps the ball flight neutral (ie a gentle curve not a balloon and stall) even into the wind.

Thank you for that. I knew you'd know!

 

[Nosevi]

Thank you for that. I knew you'd know!

No problem

 

[3565]

are you sure it's the shaft?
it could be your AOA, or trying to hit the ball harder into a wind which is the worse thing you can do. Just be sure before swapping shafts.

 

[ManinBlack]

are you sure it's the shaft?
it could be your AOA, or trying to hit the ball harder into a wind which is the worse thing you can do. Just be sure before swapping shafts.

I'm sure a lot is down to technique but, at 68 years old, there's only so much I can / am willing to, do about it. I doubt I'll change shaft or head because I'm pretty convinced the present setup is the best for me, after many years of trial & error.

 

[Piece]

The perfect solution is to find a place that has outdoor Trackman hitting into a wind and that will give you actual distance data than GC2 estimated

 

[the_coach]

don't really need to have 'wind' either artificial or real in a driver fitting. a fitter who is a PGA Pro will be in tune with the numbers someone worried about high flight in the wind that should be monitored.

without having to pay attention to them all folks should check what their Peak Height & Descent Angle are as well as their Ball speed & Spin rate.

things you'd need to think over for optimum distance whatever the clubhead speed.

centeredness of strike - but with driver the caveat being - with a driver it's not geometric center of the face - to get maximum efficiency of energy transfer CHS to BS speed the 'sweet spot' is approx 1/4" vertically above true center & 1/4" toe side on horizontal axis (most 460cc heads).
easiest ways for most folks to get a better repeated strike location use a 43"- 43&1/2" driver. can of foot spray at range seasons.

AoA has to be at least level through strike ideally a +AoA - to what degree up depends upon the CHS.
reasonably neutral swing path relative to the 0º ball/target line.

LA at least 10º for above average SS so slower speeds at least 12º good bunch of folks would be better off with a higher launch angle than more like 15º.

get the strike pattern to be near the driver 'sweet spot (as above) with a +AoA & you will minimize your spin rate & optimize the LA.

Peak height approx in the low 30's (yards)
Descent Angle approx 32º to 38º

as an approx guide Ball Speed of 120mph (CHS approx 84mph - could be higher with lower SF number) for best distance would need an optimum LA 15º-17º. SR 2500-3000rpms which would give a carry distance of approx 198 yards. lower spin rate would not help generate more distance given the BS number as it wouldn't get into the air enough to get optimum distance head wind or zero head wind.

some optimum figures for different ball speeds.

130 mph

14.5-17*

2400-3100

215 yards

140 mph

14-17+*

2350-2950

233 yards

150 mph

13-16.5+*

2300-2800

252 yards

160 mph

12-16+*

2200-2650

271 yards

compare against one of the best ......

6.75º Driver (color pink .... )
Driver Length - 44"
Clubhead Speed - 125 mph
Ball Speed - 194 mph
SF - 1.552
9º +AoA
Launch Angle - 15.5-17º
Spin Rate - 1865 rpm
Peak Height 33 yards
Descent Angle 38º
Carry Distance - 360 yards recorded by Ping

 

[Nosevi]

The perfect solution is to find a place that has outdoor Trackman hitting into a wind and that will give you actual distance data than GC2 estimated

I'm afraid that's not the case. I could get all geeky and explain why doppler radar based systems get less and less accurate when you add in external factors like wind that they don't know about but I won't. Trackman does some things very well but for a club fitting a GC2 wins hands down. The reason is all to do with a doppler radar's inability to measure spin axis and so deduces it based on ball flight which is effected by the wind as well as other factors. If you're even remotely interested PM me and I'll go into further details.

also I agree with everything the coach has said, it's all about optimising your ball flight. I even fit snuggly into one of his optimum launces for driver which is good to know

 

[ManinBlack]

compare against one of the best ......

6.75º Driver (color pink .... )
Driver Length - 44"
Clubhead Speed - 125 mph
Ball Speed - 194 mph
SF - 1.552
9º +AoA
Launch Angle - 15.5-17º
Spin Rate - 1865 rpm
Peak Height 33 yards
Descent Angle 38º
Carry Distance - 360 yards recorded by Ping

Who gave you my launch stats?!

Seriously though, what you say about the fitter listening to the customer is right. I appreciate that altering the swing to produce better figures is the way to go but I am realistic enough to know that I'm not going to radically change the swing I've been using for almost 60 years. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try, I'm currently half way through a series of lessons with a new pro, who has given me a few things to work on.

However the launch figures come out I know from experience how I want the ball to perform and I am happy to sacrifice a bit of distance for more control & a few more yards into the wind, which I know I get when I hit it lower with my current swing

 

[bobmac]

To me, the most important thing with a driver is how far it goes into the wind.

Just out of interest, did you tell the fitter you wanted a driver that hits the ball low?