Brute of a par 4

[High wide and handsome]

Borrowing an often used tv commentary phrase as a title, I'm going to step up and start my first thread.

Playing in the comp Saturday, for the first time when it mattered, I parred our 4th hole, SI1, 4 for 3 for 3, great success!

Not that impressive in itself, but our 4th hole is a bit of a monster. 450 yard off either tees, gently uphill first 300 yards, then much steeper thereafter. Usually plays with wind coming from the right and slightly behind. You've got oob, tight down the first 240 yards on the right, and thick junglely rough for 50 yard past that. Lots of trees on the left, and a patch of woods starting around the 280 mark, which blocks off approach to the green. On top of that, if you can drive it far enough to get to the green with your second, theres one sneaky tree in the right hand rough, just to interfere with anyone moving one with the wind, just before the fairway tightens around the 250yd point.

The green is large and slopes from back to front, and like all our greens at the moment, is pretty slick. Anything not underneath the hole, leaves you a fast, breaking putt generally. A couple of bunkers also on the left side, front and back. One of which replaced a bunker that used to be right of the green. Anything that is hit long, has got oob tight behind the green waiting to gobble it up too.

In short, its a good par. Have a look for yourselves here https://www.wathgolfclub.co.uk/index.php/4/

Having said all that, the 16th off the medal, is probably as tough if not more so as the green is much smaller, and almost always out of sight on approach. Both holes are equally long, nearly as long as this post!😃

So how difficult is the hardest hole at your place?

 

[Slab]

I fear this won't come across in the spirit its intended but here goes anyway

I don't see the 'brute' effect here. The pics show a pretty open unprotected fairway to a generally unprotected large green that sits level with the fairway allowing balls to roll on which negates a chunk of its distance defense anyway

Only scratch golfers are supposed to get 4's here, for everyone else they can lay up the 2nd shot with no danger and pitch/chip/putt on which takes the shallow bunkers completely out of play for a 2-putt nett par

Looks like it would work very well as a risk/reward 2nd shot hole though (but for me that doesn't make the hole a brute)

Well done on the par though, I know I couldn't par it without a slice of luck

 

[User62651]

Our hardest par is imo the 1st although card says it's the 12th, 1st is 445yards par 4 carrying 2 ditches but damp fairway with no roll, followed by a steep climb up and over to get to blind green. Plays more like 545 yrds. Needs a long drive and a very good long and accurate 2nd with a bit of luck thrown in to get close to green. 10 years ago maybe but these days it's a 3 shotter for me (and just about everyone else). Hate starting with a bogey (or worse)!

 

[Coffey]

We have 3 very tough par 4's. The first is the 8th which is about 420 but nearly always plays directly into the wind. You have thick rough down the right with trees beyond and trees up the left. The fairway slopes pretty dramatically off to the right, so if you hit a fade you will most likely miss the fairway and be down in the run off area. Your second shot is nearly always below your feet and as our club used to be on potato fields (typical Ireland) the fairways are not flat at all. The green is two tiered with a bunker short right and everything slopes off towards the sea (right). If you go long with your approach the ball is gone as the green falls away into really thick rough and trees.

The next hard par 4 is the 17th, off the whites it is a complete different hole. Unless you hit a big drive, you have a blind shot to the green. Out of bounds down the right with a big patch of trees down the left. The fairway slopes dramatically down to the out of bounds which has a deep ditch just infront of it. This hole is all about the drive, if you nail one far enough then its not too bad. Anything off line or short makes it extremely difficult.

The final is the 18th which requires a long tee shot to reach the fairway. Railway down the right and trees left. Your second shot is down hill but it is a two tiered green with two bunkers at the front. The green is shaped like mikey mouses head and has a very narrow opening.

I'd bite your hand off for a 5 on all three of them before the start of the round. I normally ding the final two.

 

[Marshy77]

Our dogleg left 3rd SI1 is a bit of a beast, especially from the back tee's. Think it's about 430 from the back tee's with about 160/180 to clear the rough. Everything draws you right, rough down both sides of the fairway. Clear cut of rough if your short left but if you go in the rough it's a definite 3 off the tee. It's a good drive and 2 fairway shots for me, seen my low handicap mates drive the corner leaving about 160 into a very small elevated green. If you make par it's a very good par, if I make a 6 I'm happy.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'd see it as disheartening definitely, more so than a brute. 456yds for a par 4 is long. Make it uphill to this degree and it becomes a slog. Effectively it is a 500yd par 4. I wouldn't fancy it. Well done for getting a par on it :thup:. You would have to nail every shot to get that and I feel tired looking at it.

We have a very similar hole on our course. A bit shorter than yours, gradient possibly similar, perhaps not quite so steep. I'm always happy to get a 5 on there.

 

[Marshy77]

Our hardest par is imo the 1st although card says it's the 12th, 1st is 445yards par 4 carrying 2 ditches but damp fairway with no roll, followed by a steep climb up and over to get to blind green. Plays more like 545 yrds. Needs a long drive and a very good long and accurate 2nd with a bit of luck thrown in to get close to green. 10 years ago maybe but these days it's a 3 shotter for me (and just about everyone else). Hate starting with a bogey (or worse)!
View attachment 22963

There's a green up there??

 

[patricks148]

not sure i would call it a beast.

our 13th is Si1 its 420 something off the white with the green playing a good 20 yards longer as its up the hill.

a good drive will leave you an iron, but anything short will just run back down the hill, so long is better than short. quite a tricky green on two tiers and a big right to left slope. 5 is not the end of the world TBH.

 

[User62651]

There's a green up there??

Yes, over that stake and right a tad. Generally your 3rd shot is a full sand wedge but a blind shot on a par 4! Need a minute to get my breath when I get up there too.

 

[hovis]

off the whites its the 18th on the Brabazon. I'd go as far a saying its one of the hardest holes in the country. different hole completely off the yellows

 

[njrose51]

East Sussex National. West course. Hole 14.

Its 472 from the Gold, 442 from the Blue. Trouble right in front of the tee. Tight undulating fairways. Go left and you are hampered by trees. OoB right nearly all the way. plenty of bunkers. steep uphill to smallish green. it takes two very good shots to get onto the green in regulation. most people I play with treat it as a par 5 in the hope of getting close with the third. This is also following the tough 12th - a long dogleg tight par five with stupidly small green, water, OoBs and the tricky 13th which is a longish par 3 over marsh boggy water! its a good couple of holes.

 

[High wide and handsome]

Oh don't get me wrong, i realise its not going to give mcilroy, speith, johnson et al. nightmares but for your average weekend warrior, walking off with 5, is a good result. Because i can reach in 2, i tend to bail out right, and like on saturday chip and putt (hopefully just the one or two) for par. But for a lot of folk, its 3 shots everytime.

@ slab, perfectly fair call my man, although photos dont really show the green complex as it is now, in any case, im not after internet points here, just thought it may be an interesting topic🤔

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

We have a famous (infamous?) hole at Broadstone, the 7th. 430y par 4 where you play over a valley for your 2nd shot with a carry of about 180y depending how far you hit it off the tee. The fairway also slopes severely right to left and also uphill at the landing area so you have to aim well right over a mound in front of the tee making it a blind shot. On a calm day it is usually hybrid off the tee followed by about a 5 iron but it plays into the prevailing wind so can be driver and 3 wood

Most people really struggle with it first time they play the course but members don't really find it the hardest hole even though it is SI1 if they can make the 2nd shot carry.

 

[JohnnyDee]

Our 1st which according to the card is SI 5.

All but 440 yards par 4 uphill and normally into the prevailing wind. Out of bounds left and a dense copse of trees right for the tee shot, just for extra enjoyment the copse is sitting behind a ditch that runs from about 100 yards out and nearly all the way up to the green. A massive oak tree standing back about 60 yards from the green to block out approaches that are coming in too far from the right, and the whole thing nicely topped off with three green side bunkers; a green which might not be out of place at Augusta as far as undulations are concerned.

Needless to say we all love it as our very first 'challenge' on stroke play comps. :thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Everything is relative...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our toughest hole is our par 4, 474yd 2nd.

For the first 320yds it's a steady pull up a slope. At the top it dog-legs 30* or so right, and slopes gently down to the green. It's directly into the prevailing wind and a real toughie. Always a blind second shot. And always a good 4.

In our June Saturday medal two weekends ago - with a stiff prevailing wind - the average score was 5.92
In our June Sunday medal on Sunday - almost dead calm and very warm - the average score was 5.58
May medal it was 5.5

I believe that in days past it was a par 5.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our 9th is 400 yards but always plays into a breeze and so plays longer. There's a bunker right and we have a ditch at about 260 with deep rough left and right. It's two big hits for the majority of players including many of the single figure guys. With a tough green sloping back to front it's not an easy two put and definitely plays far harder than the SI12

 

[Wabinez]

Our 18th usually plays fairly difficult. Par 4, 472 yards off the whites. Uphill approach to a fairly small green. 4 is generally considered a good score!

 

[tugglesf239]

I'm not a member but the 13th at motram hall is a real git.

460 yard severe dog leg left SI1 everyday of the week.

Plays about 230 to the top of the first ridge and there is s bunker on the right hand side ready to catch everything.

You can play shorter but that leaves you a massive uphill 2nd, or you can play longer and hope that you miss the bunker and avoid the thick trees on the left

Tee shot is also totally blind.

2nd shot sees you hitting up another huge hill to a smallish green.

I've only hit the green once in regulation in all the times I've played it.

Last week on a cororate event, we had prices for closest to the pin in 2.

Unfortunately there was also a strong left to right wind.

Not one single player from any group managed to hit the green in 2.

Tough old hole for sure.

 

[Slab]

I guess since I had a gentle swipe at the OP's brute description I should offer up my own personal brute nemesis (I may have posted this pic before from the course guide)




18th stroke 1 par 4
near 190 yard carry off the tee and if you miss the bunkers it leaves a second carry to the green that severely slopes back down into the hazard
So many people found is so tough that they have actually now built a 2nd green to the left of the fairway to give an option for players to finish with some dignity intact


Also the 9th stroke 2 par 5 gets me more often than not (not one for a fade shot)


If I ever meet the designer I'll smack him the with all empty boxes that once held the new balls that now reside in these hazards