Bogey Comp Handicap reduction ???

[Farneyman]

Hi

Can anyone point me to a link where this is explained?

As an example in bogey comp I (off 12.2) finished 6 up on the course. The CSS stayed at par 69. So according to HDID I was cut 1.2 (the 6 x.2's) to 11.0

My score was a PB 78 -12 = 66 with an 8 on a stroking hole which takes the 66 to a 65 and 4 under.

So if it was a medal I would have only got cut 4 x .2's and .8 in total. Its seems strange that I get a bigger cut than that???

My understanding is that depending on how well you do against the course your handicap in reduced by .1's, .2's or .3's

Why is there a difference in reductions or is this incorrect?

Ta

 

[Foxholer]

Par and Bogey comps are handled according to Appendix D of this manual. http://www.congu.com/2016 CONGU Manual - Final version.pdf

It's swings and roundabouts in such comps compared to Strokeplay/Stableford ones.

While a (potentially) big score on any hole counts simply as a loss, a player gets no extra credit for a Birdie on a stroke hole!

Btw.
Why, after losing that hole, did you actually continue playing?

 

[Farneyman]

Par and Bogey comps are handled according to Appendix D of this manual. http://www.congu.com/2016 CONGU Manual - Final version.pdf

Still cant see why a player deserves more of a cut in Bogey comp compared to any other form, medal/stableford???

BTW Yes I holed out for my 8. It was the 16th (SI4) and I was 3 off the tee. Played 2nd ball approach which just fell off the left side of green so a chip in would have been a 5 for 4 and I would have won the hole. Duffed that chip shot so left with another chip playing 6 for 5 and if holed the chip the hole would have been halved. Chipped to 10 feet and had a go at the putt and missed it and tapped in the tiddler.

I played the hole out as the extra shots took literally no time as I was only 5 over on the 16th tee and wasn't sure how handicap would be calculated as I had a chance of a new PB and a decent cut. Managed to par 17 and 18 after that

Will know in future that holing out wasn't necessary in this format once hole was lost but always nice to shot a PB in any format and come down a full stroke.

 

[Farneyman]

Still curious as to why there is the difference in handicap reductions between the different format.

Any rules gurus able to expand?

Thanks

 

[rosecott]

I know it is possible that a medal score in a Bogey competition could have led to a bigger handicap reduction than the Bogey result produces but I've never known the reverse.

"17/2
Handicap Adjustment in Par/Bogey Competition Is Less than in Stroke Play Equivalent

Q. A Category One player competing in a Par/Bogey Competition finished one up on a course where the SSS, CSS and Par were the same. His nett score, had Stroke Play conditions prevailed, would have been three strokes below the CSS. By how much should his handicap be reduced?

A The Table in Appendix D is used to convert Par/Bogey and stableford scores to Nett Differentials. The Stroke Play score is not relevant. In the above situation 1up converted to a Nett Differential of -1 resulting in an exact Handicap reduction of 0.1 of a stroke."

Perhaps you could post your hole-by-hole scores so we can try to come up with an answer.

 

[backwoodsman]

Still curious as to why there is the difference in handicap reductions between the different format.

Any rules gurus able to expand?

Thanks

Not sure there is a difference? How about the following explanation.

To win a hole you have to play the hole by at least one shot better than handicap for the hole. The "system" assumes it's just the one. To lose a hole it's because you played at least one worse than h/c and again the system assumes it's just the one. On that basis, to win by X holes up you have to play X shots better than your handicap - in your case 6.

The difficult bit in my mind is how to get to 6 holes up by playing only 3 better than handicap (and this the important bit) if you had nothing worse than the one nett double bogey (which is what you sort of imply). (And an 8 on a par 5 shot hole needs no adjustment). Is that the case - or did you have other "bad" holes?

 

[Farneyman]

Perhaps you could post your hole-by-hole scores so we can try to come up with an answer.

Hope this is what you mean.

Hole number - Stroke Index - Par of hole - my score - score against course


1-7-4-4 1+
2-17-3-3 1+
3-13-4-4 1+
4-3-4-4 2+
5-9-4-5 2+
6-11-4-5 2+
7-1-4-4 3+
8-5-4-4 4+
9-15-4-6 3+

Par 35 My Score 39

10-12-3-3 4+
11-8-5-5 5+
12-10-3-3 6+
13-2-4-4 7+
14-6-4-5 7+
15-18-4-4 7+
16-4-4-8 6+
17-16-4-4 6+
18-14-3-3 6+

Par 34 My Score 39

Par 69 CSS was 69 My Score 78 Stableford 40 with 2 blobs

(although 8 would reduce to 7 for hc)

According to HDID I was cut 1.2 (the 6 x.2's) to 11.0.

If it was a medal I would have only got cut 4 x .2's and .8 in total. Its seems strange that I get a bigger cut than that???

My question is why is there a difference in handicap reductions for this bogey comp?

 

[duncan mackie]

Not sure there is a difference? How about the following explanation.

To win a hole you have to play the hole by at least one shot better than handicap for the hole. The "system" assumes it's just the one. To lose a hole it's because you played at least one worse than h/c and again the system assumes it's just the one. On that basis, to win by X holes up you have to play X shots better than your handicap - in your case 6.

The difficult bit in my mind is how to get to 6 holes up by playing only 3 better than handicap (and this the important bit) if you had nothing worse than the one nett double bogey (which is what you sort of imply). (And an 8 on a par 5 shot hole needs no adjustment). Is that the case - or did you have other "bad" holes?

It's not difficult...

8 x par at stroke holes = -8
5 x par at non stroke = 0
3 x bogey at stroke = 0
2 x blobs 1 s 1 ns = +2

The above gives -6 in a Par comp
It gives 40 points in a stableford -4 where par = CSS
Where the blobs total 6 over as they did here it gives a medal score of 9 over = -3, and any combination of strokes and scores at those 2 blobs give you a stableford adjusted score of -4 .

 

[duncan mackie]

It's not difficult...

8 x par at stroke holes = -8
5 x par at non stroke = 0
3 x bogey at stroke = 0
2 x blobs 1 s 1 ns = +2

The above gives -6 in a Par comp
It gives 40 points in a stableford -4 where par = CSS
Where the blobs total 6 over as they did here it gives a medal score of 9 over = -3, and any combination of strokes and scores at those 2 blobs give you a stableford adjusted score of -4 .

This is what happens when you get back from answering the front door an hour later and simply push the button to post!

 

[duncan mackie]

My question is why is there a difference in handicap reductions for this bogey comp?

Because that's how it is.

For some of us exactly the same question used to apply to stableford when we were all handicapped to medal scores.

Inherently we all have 3 handicaps - medal, Stableford and matchplay. The differences are crested by the degree of variance we have as a result of our play. For a consistent player the 3 will pretty much equate with variation being seen more on good and bad days. As an example I will generally have 4 double/triple bogies (for reasons many who have played with me know). This makes me a bandit at matchplay (potentially more so in teams or pairs) pretty normal at stableford (unsurprisingly as we are handicapped to that) and normally poor at medal where things can easily get right out of hand and the good stuff doesn't make up for it! Given a choice I would compete in par competitions all the time and not only would I be most competitive but my handicap would get to its lowest!

Of course clubs could just run Stableford comps and then everything would be fair for everybody, or not run Par comps with the potential to reduce people like me (and you).

At the end of the day your result was extreme and it still only created a small one off difference that will either be proved appropriate in time, or get corrected pretty quickly.

 

[Farneyman]

Because that's how it is.

For some of us exactly the same question used to apply to stableford when we were all handicapped to medal scores.

Inherently we all have 3 handicaps - medal, Stableford and matchplay. The differences are crested by the degree of variance we have as a result of our play. For a consistent player the 3 will pretty much equate with variation being seen more on good and bad days. As an example I will generally have 4 double/triple bogies (for reasons many who have played with me know). This makes me a bandit at matchplay (potentially more so in teams or pairs) pretty normal at stableford (unsurprisingly as we are handicapped to that) and normally poor at medal where things can easily get right out of hand and the good stuff doesn't make up for it! Given a choice I would compete in par competitions all the time and not only would I be most competitive but my handicap would get to its lowest!

Of course clubs could just run Stableford comps and then everything would be fair for everybody, or not run Par comps with the potential to reduce people like me (and you).

At the end of the day your result was extreme and it still only created a small one off difference that will either be proved appropriate in time, or get corrected pretty quickly.

Thanks for that. Love a "Just because" answer