Blm-Renaming the masters

[Diamond]

No. That's not more equal opportunities.

Equal opportunities is having the same chance irrespective of employers colour. All yours above is doing, is compounding racism from a different ethnicity.

Making a statement like equal opportunities doesn’t mean anything to anyone of a BAME background who comes across racism on a regular basis. My point is that when a third of all owners are BAME in this country we will be getting somewhere close to where we want to be.

 

[Papas1982]

Making a statement like equal opportunities doesn’t mean anything to anyone of a BAME background who comes across racism on a regular basis. My point is that when a third of all owners are BAME in this country we will be getting somewhere close to where we want to be.

You won't be though.

Beciase the. Your Basically saying blacks will just employ clakcs, Chinese just Chinese etc.

That isn't actually progress.

 

[Diamond]

You won't be though.

Beciase the. Your Basically saying blacks will just employ clakcs, Chinese just Chinese etc.

That isn't actually progress.

That isn’t what I am saying. I am saying progress is a black man owning a football club. Think about it, it’s the colour of his skin. Running the country, managing England etc etc. Until that day comes we are no better off.

 

[Papas1982]

That isn’t what I am saying. I am saying progress is a black man owning a football club. Think about it, it’s the colour of his skin. Running the country, managing England etc etc. Until that day comes we are no better off.

I don’t think a black person has to be pm, or manage England to show that. Obama was president and there’s plenty of issues in the US. But I do get your point.

 

[oxymoron]

Cutting my point down to the basic principle I will use a football club. If the owner is black he will in turn employ black staff which means the probability of a black manager is higher. I can’t name a black football club owner and I can only name 2-3 black managers (Curle, Campbell and Hughton). More black owners will mean more equal opportunity for black managers. That was my point.

Is this not in turn racist ? Surely the best man\woman for the job is the way to go ? Progress is giving the black person the environment and the opportunity not just paying lip service, this solves nothing and may open up an entirely new
can of worms giving oxygen to racists to who will perceive this as discrimination against them .This is a complicated matter where a golf forum will never ever agree to the best course of action we will just wind each other up and descend to petty insults .

 

[sunshine]

Is this not in turn racist ? Surely the best man\woman for the job is the way to go ? Progress is giving the black person the environment and the opportunity not just paying lip service, this solves nothing and may open up an entirely new
can of worms giving oxygen to racists to who will perceive this as discrimination against them .This is a complicated matter where a golf forum will never ever agree to the best course of action we will just wind each other up and descend to petty insults .

In theory what you say is correct.

However, research has shown that having diverse management leads to recruitment of a more diverse team. Probably due to unconscious bias. So if a business consistently wants to recruit the best person for the job (regardless of race or gender), the most effective way is to promote some minorities to decision making roles. That's why so many companies are trying to reach quotas for female board representation. There is a risk that someone gets over-promoted on the race/gender ticket - it seems a risk most companies are prepared to take.

I think anyone would feel miffed if they were overlooked for promotion in favour of a BAME colleague who was meeting a quota. I suppose the counter argument is that the BAME employees may have been unfairly overlooked many many times before. It's a tough one - I don't have the answer.

 

[PNWokingham]

food for thought

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...tched-black-lives-matter-badge-concerns-grow/

 

[C&R]

This whole thread is pretty eye opening and after reading all the comments thus far here my opinion -

Rename it back to its original name. I believe it was quoted earlier as "The Augusta National Invitational". Sounds like the perfect name for a major to me. The club clearly has a strong racist past, statues have been ripped up across england and massive changes are being made across the world now to support the BAME community. Its the right thing to do and the only way forward. "It's always been that way" or anything similar is just a pathetic excuse.

For those trying to make jokes of the subject, shame on you.

Bdill93 why don’t you start a trend and give up your membership to your golf club for one of the BAME community as you obviously see golf as a totally racist sport where only white privileged Males are allowed to play. I’m a member of a “ nice” golf club. I work very hard for a living and have never been given anything. I don’t want special treatment from anyone. I was brought up on a council estate in Peckham, south London and yes I have seen racism from both sides. To have BLM agenda thrown about for the most stupid reasons ( changing the name of the masters ) good god ,what on this earth is that going to achieve. The one word in your message that sticks out is PAST .augusta cannot rewind time.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Bdill93 why don’t you start a trend and give up your membership to your golf club for one of the BAME community as you obviously see golf as a totally racist sport where only white privileged Males are allowed to play. I’m a member of a “ nice” golf club. I work very hard for a living and have never been given anything. I don’t want special treatment from anyone. I was brought up on a council estate in Peckham, south London and yes I have seen racism from both sides. To have BLM agenda thrown about for the most stupid reasons ( changing the name of the masters ) good god ,what on this earth is that going to achieve. The one word in your message that sticks out is PAST .augusta cannot rewind time.

It's just an opinion from Bdill93; no need to get wound up about if if you differ on a proposed name change.

Looking at a Golf England study, 0.6% of the BAME community play golf so the percentage is really low. Interesting your assumption is that it's a lack of money (and perceived lack of effort to earn more from mentioning hard working) that is causing the restrictions. The study suggests that usual barriers to entry are present around cost and time, but actually they talk about environment, perception and stereotypes are very much a factor with people either not growing up/understanding the game or wondering if they feel welcome if they do show an interest - presumably a chance to take note of historical issues makes a clear impression that the BAME community are welcome and so those smaller changes (doesn't have to be Masters name change) could be more impactful than just insisting Bdill93 gives up his membership as they want "special treatment". Be interesting to see if clubs decide they should take a more active role to increase memberships and become more diverse - I think Sweden and Germany are often talked about as having a different golf culture, not necessarily on race but more family orientated around mixed golf but I may be mistaken as that's just snippets on forums I've read. Sort of links back in to the magazine's article on how would you design golf clubs now if starting from scratch.

 

[Lazkir]

It's just an opinion from Bdill93; no need to get wound up about if if you differ on a proposed name change.

Looking at a Golf England study, 0.6% of the BAME community play golf so the percentage is really low. Interesting your assumption is that it's a lack of money (and perceived lack of effort to earn more from mentioning hard working) that is causing the restrictions. The study suggests that usual barriers to entry are present around cost and time, but actually they talk about environment, perception and stereotypes are very much a factor with people either not growing up/understanding the game or wondering if they feel welcome if they do show an interest - presumably a chance to take note of historical issues makes a clear impression that the BAME community are welcome and so those smaller changes (doesn't have to be Masters name change) could be more impactful than just insisting Bdill93 gives up his membership as they want "special treatment". Be interesting to see if clubs decide they should take a more active role to increase memberships and become more diverse - I think Sweden and Germany are often talked about as having a different golf culture, not necessarily on race but more family orientated around mixed golf but I may be mistaken as that's just snippets on forums I've read. Sort of links back in to the magazine's article on how would you design golf clubs now if starting from scratch.

Have you got a link to that study?

 

[DanFST]

food for thought

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...tched-black-lives-matter-badge-concerns-grow/

Totally valid reason IMO. The far left minority have again been the most vocal. As always...

But the racism and equality still needs to be addressed.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Have you got a link to that study?

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-cont...ic-Diversity-Through-Community-Engagement.pdf

This is more the material for golf clubs from the looks of it and relies on both Sports England studies and particular projects including one in Birmingham. It's a bit wishy-washy in a lot of places but generally is the obvious stuff of don't ignore typical barriers to entry like cost which still applies, but that you also have further barriers that you need to think about to attract participants.

 

[Lazkir]

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-cont...ic-Diversity-Through-Community-Engagement.pdf

This is more the material for golf clubs from the looks of it and relies on both Sports England studies and particular projects including one in Birmingham. It's a bit wishy-washy in a lot of places but generally is the obvious stuff of don't ignore typical barriers to entry like cost which still applies, but that you also have further barriers that you need to think about to attract participants.

Cheers

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Ethnic groups playing golf,interesting debate. I don't really understand why more don't. In the 12 years I have been at my club there has been 1 Asian guy and a couple of weeks ago I saw a black guy in the group in front of me. I don't know if he is a new member or was a guest. One thing I do know is that everyone is made to feel welcome at my club so if any ethnic people joined they would they would be included in all club activities. The husband of the woman that runs our bar and catering side of things is black, he also works in our halfway hut at weekends. He is universally liked, really nice guy. Having said that, Dorset doesn't have a very high ethnic population compared to other parts of the country.

 

[PNWokingham]

Totally valid reason IMO. The far left minority have again been the most vocal. As always...

But the racism and equality still needs to be addressed.

agree with both points but as usual the yoghurt knitters and anarchists are out of the asylum spoiling the core message from the protests

 

[Bazz]

I'm from an ethnic minority but being in the Midlands there's a lot of us a round, plenty of golfers in our family but most courses around we're usually in the minority. Never bothered any of us one bit and we didn't need any special initiatives to get playing, just got out there and got stuck in.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A genuine question, perhaps to those from ethnic backgrounds, but does the stigma of golf clubs and the stereotype of the 70's and 80's put people off even now. We do have members from Asian backgrounds but not from any other part of the BAME spectrum, certainly not any black members. Bracknell is a large and diverse town close by but I wonder if the "Royal" in the name puts people off (maybe we're back to the lines of master/servant from other parts of the thread even subconsciously) or they feel they wouldn't be accepted or stand out.

 

[Bazz]

A genuine question, perhaps to those from ethnic backgrounds, but does the stigma of golf clubs and the stereotype of the 70's and 80's put people off even now. We do have members from Asian backgrounds but not from any other part of the BAME spectrum, certainly not any black members. Bracknell is a large and diverse town close by but I wonder if the "Royal" in the name puts people off (maybe we're back to the lines of master/servant from other parts of the thread even subconsciously) or they feel they wouldn't be accepted or stand out.

I was born in '83 so can't comment on the 70s or 80s but the word Royal wouldn't put me off anything.

 

[sunshine]

Ethnic groups playing golf,interesting debate. I don't really understand why more don't. In the 12 years I have been at my club there has been 1 Asian guy and a couple of weeks ago I saw a black guy in the group in front of me. I don't know if he is a new member or was a guest. One thing I do know is that everyone is made to feel welcome at my club so if any ethnic people joined they would they would be included in all club activities. The husband of the woman that runs our bar and catering side of things is black, he also works in our halfway hut at weekends. He is universally liked, really nice guy. Having said that, Dorset doesn't have a very high ethnic population compared to other parts of the country.

Rightly or wrongly, private golf clubs have a reputation for being elitist and snobby, the last bastion of chauvinism, sexism, racism. The media portrayal of golf often plays up to these stereotypes.

Golf clubs are intimidating places to strangers. There have been loads of threads on here from new members worried about making a faux pas in their first round / comp / visit. When you arrive at a golf club you're faced with signs everywhere telling you about what you can't do: no changing shoes in the car park, no mobile phones, committee only, members only... and that's just the car park! And then you have the dress code.

If a person thinks the golf club isn't going to welcome them then they won't go there. In reality, your golf club may be incredibly welcoming to ethnic minorities, but if the club isn't pro-actively doing anything to dispel the negative perception it's not going to go away. And if you have a full membership there is no burning platform to attract new members from different backgrounds.

My perception is that public courses have a more diverse mix of ethnicities because they are less intimidating places. I'm thinking about the courses that @Orikoru and @Traminator play at: they are next door to each other. The public course Haste Hill has a much more diverse membership, and this includes affluent Asian people who could easily afford to play at Northwood next door but wouldn't join it because it was a bit snobby they think it's full of racists. It may have changed now, but 15 years ago there were no ethnic minorities at Northwood. There was a documentary about the club, which is about the most cringe-worthy thing that's ever been on tv...

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-club/on-demand/19016-001

 

[sunshine]

It has indeed changed massively. The general population around here has a very obvious high percentage of people of Asian descent and this is clearly obvious on any given day on the course.

The membership is very diverse, the Chairman is of Asian descent actually.

The days of the documentary are long gone, I believe most of the board had to resign so I'm told.

Most of the membership that I have mixed with are very much working people, the down to earth approach starts at the top with the manager who is a very friendly Scottish ex Royal Navy CPO.

Happy to report there is absolutely nothing snobbish whatsoever. ?

That is great news.

As little as 12 years ago it was quite different. High Asian population in the area, but not Northwood.

I hoped you've watched the documentary, it is hilarious and tragic at the same time.