BLM protests/ Riots.

[Billysboots]

I saw a line of police horses riding at protesters so hardly just that one had bolted. Mixed reports as to whether the police action was in response to crowd violence or caused it.

Do you really think, with the world’s media watching, and doubtless hundreds of members of the public watching on with their camera phones recording every move, that the police are going to charge on horseback towards a peaceful protest?

Really?

 

[harpo_72]

I am very conflicted about protesting this issue just now. It is massively important and has been swept under the carpet for too long and now there is real momentum and an opportunity to make progress. Yet mass gatherings are anathema at the moment due to the pandemic so how do we rationalise that? Personally, I want to join the protests today but have decided not to because of the virus. But I support the cause 100%

My big objection to many people on social media and this forum as well is the completely lop-sided criticism of the protests with little or no comment on the issues being protested. And people who were quite happy with government advisers flouting the lockdown, with VE day parties and crowded beaches suddenly being vocal critics.

no pandemic and I would be marching as well. I struggle with gender and colour being reasons to treat people differently or poorly. I am also aware that the human behaviour just makes stuff worse, if you treat someone disrespectfully they will reflect that back at you.
I am also of the opinion that the majority went with a noble and peaceful reason, only for a small minority who just want to cause mayhem, giving the media some headlines. The police know this, they know who these people are, and normally they would isolate them or at least try to. I think the police have the hardest job there is. They take abuse and are supposed to turn the other cheek, they try to keep us safe but are poorly supported. I think those pressures cause cracks and bad behaviour and poor judgement occurs ... oh government advisors that have no one to answer to, is a very worrying scenario, but one the majority voted for, I don’t know what else you can do or say, this government has a majority given to it by the people. That majority will be reflected here and pretty much every where because it was so large. Sadly perhaps there is a correlation between one advisors silly behaviour and the people’s... he is obviously quite influential

 

[Billysboots]

It doesn't make me feel better. It's absolutely horrific but surely you can see that policing these protests in that manner is not only wrong but frankly stupid as it is only stoking the tensions further. In many of the instances it would appear there was no crowd violence, no rioting, no disorder until the police weighed in. That's not maintaining order.

You’re seeing what the media are broadcasting. Don’t be so naive.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Black lives matter but what about the protesters causing damage???

 

[Billysboots]

It's on every news broadcast today

See my previous reply.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I'd be interested to see how the protests would have gone ahead and manifested if there was no police presence.

 

[SocketRocket]

All society can do is make the same opportunities in life available to everyone. It's then up to the individual to make the best of those opportunities. The important question to ask ourselves is 'are we making these opportunities available to everyone'. if the answer is 'yes' then we can do no more, if 'no' then we need to change.

 

[Dando]

Was that the one saying to the government
“ don’t you dare blame the protesters if there is a second Covid spike”

Of course it’s not their fault ......doh ??

That’s the one

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'd be interested to see how the protests would have gone ahead and manifested if there was no police presence.

My impression is that the police largely stood back and the demonstration took place peacefully. Towards the end a very small minority of demonstrators started throwing objects near downing street and other sensitive areas. At that point the police had no option but to step in. If the police had not been there then they would have had to be called.

The police would have been very aware how sensitive yesterday was. I doubt they would have wanted to be involved if at all possible. Once that minority started attacking buildings what are they supposed to do?

 

[Billysboots]

My impression is that the police largely stood back and the demonstration took place peacefully. Towards the end a very small minority of demonstrators started throwing objects near downing street and other sensitive areas. At that point the police had no option but to step in. If the police had not been there then they would have had to be called.

The police would have been very aware how sensitive yesterday was. I doubt they would have wanted to be involved if at all possible. Once that minority started attacking buildings what are they supposed to do?

Absolutely spot on. I can assure you the entire MPS would have wanted to be anywhere else but policing that protest. And they would have had a very specific briefing which would have been very clear - that any positive action would be an absolute last resort.

 

[drdel]

Most of the reports I've seen say the horse bolted as objects were thrown at it.

"Objects!" - I think guys throwing a bike at a horse qualifies as being both needless cruelty and excessive violence against a defenceless animal and should be punished as such. Unfortunately in too many cases there are a minority who want to add violence and provocation to garner media exposure.

These rent-a-mob, minority led actions undermine the moral cause.

 

[Midnight]

I saw a line of police horses riding at protesters so hardly just that one had bolted. Mixed reports as to whether the police action was in response to crowd violence or caused it.

Whatever, I'd suggest that it's dangerous and cruel to use horses in this manner. A police office and at least one protester were injured.

What tactics would you use?
Police officers in general are dammed if they do things and dammed if they don't. A lot of officers will be policing the situation to the best of their ability, a lot of them won't want to be there as they agree that all lives matter and would of been hoping that there would be no trouble however they have to do their job. They are in a no win situation .

I don't agree with what the officers did in America but that will be dealt with.

 

[Billysboots]

Obviously I don't know and it's clearly a horrible situation for them. I don't think I'd ride horses at people as that just seems wrong on all levels. Beyond that I don't want to speculate as I wasn't there to see what was happening. All I'm trying to do is get people condemning the protests to try and think about it a bit more.

When it comes the the situation in America, I hope you're right but the only reason that looks like it might get dealt with is the protests.

Bit of a climb down?

You don’t know what tactics you’d use, simply because you have no knowledge at all of public order tactics. None. Zip.

But you wouldn’t use horses because it “seems” wrong. It’s not. It’s a legitimate tactic used to disperse crowds. But the crowning statement? That you don’t want to speculate because you weren’t there.

With the greatest respect, all you have done is speculate, and worse still, based that speculation purely on what the press and media have ALLOWED you to see. And, of course, the British press and media don’t have an agenda, do they?

Priceless.

 

[Midnight]

Obviously I don't know and it's clearly a horrible situation for them. I don't think I'd ride horses at people as that just seems wrong on all levels. Beyond that I don't want to speculate as I wasn't there to see what was happening. All I'm trying to do is get people condemning the protests to try and think about it a bit more.

When it comes the the situation in America, I hope you're right but the only reason that looks like it might get dealt with is the protests.

Unfortunately the problem with protests is that a lot of the time there is a element that don't care about the rights/wrongs or even the cause that people are protesting about, all they care about is causing trouble. I'm all in favour for peaceful protests and people marching for what they believe in.

I only asked your view on tactics as I have no idea what your background is, just as you don't know mine.

I think these sort of debates discussions can very quickly go off script as this whole situation is a very emotional subject.

You are entitled to your view and I certainly would not get into a argument with you for your views mate.
We all see things from different view points and it's good to hear other peoples views as it gives us things we may not of thought of.

 

[Billysboots]

I've said what I wanted to say in good faith. You and I are clearly not going to get on and I would prefer not to get into an endless argument with someone who sees the world very differently from me.

It’s not a case of getting on or not. We might agree on everything else and find each other great company in real life.

But it really grinds my gears when someone feels free to have a pop at my profession, particularly in a politicised way, when they haven’t got the first clue what they are talking about.

Managing crowds on a large scale, especially where there is significant disorder, is a massive challenge and, for those on the ground, a logistical and often frightening nightmare.

So kindly don’t latch onto small pieces, without having the intelligence to consider the entire jigsaw, to try and score cheap points.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ok guys n gals
Let’s take 5 here, ?

 

[Billysboots]

I still haven't seen what "significant disorder" provoked that charge. Maybe there was something to make that a proportionate response, maybe not.

That’s my whole point. Right there.

How can you criticise the response, when you don’t know what prompted it?

If you KNEW what preceded the involvement of police horses then your views may have some merit. But you quite clearly don’t.

I’m sorry, but given your own comments your criticism is totally unwarranted.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

People

leave it there please

Thank you

 

[SocketRocket]

What do you think the answer is?

If I Iook at opportunities in this country I would say most of us have the same basic rights and get the same same opportunities in education, which is what can really make a difference to our lives.

It's difficult to give an opinion on what one believes is the cause of poverty and low achievement in some BAME communities. Asian people tend to be quite high achievers and are some of the wealthiest groups in the UK. This IMO is attributed to their willingness to achieve especially in business and their strong family culture. Many black people also do very well and achieve much although they also have some of the poorest and troubled communities, they are not alone in this respect as there are also some very poor and troubled white communities in the country.

If I try to take a detached view of the causes for these low achieving communities, it is easy to think the problem is a lack of oppertunity or institutional racism, of course there is an element of this but I think one of the major influences is the breakdown of the family unit. Many of the families in these communities are Fatherless, often leaving a Mother to raise a number of children on their own, trying to exist on benefits in poor accommodation, it's no wonder the children find it hard to see a bright future and easily get caught up in crime and poverty. You rarely see this in Asian communities as family cohesion is very strong.

So what is my answer. It has to be that we need to face up to the real problems in society and find better ways to improve them. I wish I had a simple answer to this one but the solution has to be somewhere in education and facing up to the real problems. Rioting creates no solutions it only helps to widen divisions.

 

[PJ87]

Just to clarify, the person involved deliberately posted the videos and links in the “Things that gladden the heart” thread,
Which is just wrong.
An infraction was given which took his live points total to 17, resulting in a 2 week ban,
He was not banned for specifically posting this content.

Is there a way to see a live league table of infraction points? No live sport.. got to get entertainment somewhede!!