Benefits culture

[Hobbit]

That culture goes top to bottom sadly Robin.

MP's expenses?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

MP's expenses?

Exactly :thup:

 

[Val]

With respect you are missing the point. Looking down on the underclass, even those who "prefer a life spending other peoples money" is not going to change unless social services can get to the root cause of what causes people to be like this and addresses that with the goal of bringing them from that point to becoming productive members of society. I bet in the vast amount of cases where people who "prefer a life of spending other peoples money" - there are more underlying reasons as to why they feel that way. Address those and you might see people getting away from that lifestyle of choice.

So, what is your solution to getting these people away from "that lifestyle of choice"?

I see it with my own eyes, I know many people who have chosen this path and they have no thought of following a different path. Investing money in these "types" won't make things better, these "types" work harder trying to beat the system and get more than they do trying to get a job, giving them more is what they want.

I feel for people who are down on luck and have fallen on hard times however these are not the target of my rant.

 

[SocketRocket]

So, what is your solution to getting these people away from "that lifestyle of choice"?

I see it with my own eyes, I know many people who have chosen this path and they have no thought of following a different path. Investing money in these "types" won't make things better, these "types" work harder trying to beat the system and get more than they do trying to get a job, giving them more is what they want.

I feel for people who are down on luck and have fallen on hard times however these are not the target of my rant.

I am sure people underestimate the size of this issue. You can go anywhere in the UK and witness these people swinging the lead.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I am sure people underestimate the size of this issue. You can go anywhere in the UK and witness these people swinging the lead.

You need to clarify just who your comments are aimed at,
6003 people appeared in court last year charged with benefit fraud, or once again are you accusing every person on benefits?
Government figures show less than 1% of people on benefits are committing fraud.
I take it every person working is completely honest.

 

[SocketRocket]

You need to clarify just who your comments are aimed at,
6003 people appeared in court last year charged with benefit fraud, or once again are you accusing every person on benefits?
Government figures show less than 1% of people on benefits are committing fraud.
I take it every person working is completely honest.

The issue is not just people committing official fraud, it's people that are being supplied with a lifestyle they dont deserve. You seem to miss the point that the Benefits system is encouraging so many people to live a life where they have no intention of working, they are not committing fraud due to the system allowing them to get away with it. OK, you make the point that some evade tax and there is corruption at high levels in society but that is not the issue, the issue is that it's all wrong and needs addressing.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The issue is not just people committing official fraud, it's people that are being supplied with a lifestyle they dont deserve. You seem to miss the point that the Benefits system is encouraging so many people to live a life where they have no intention of working, they are not committing fraud due to the system allowing them to get away with it. OK, you make the point that some evade tax and there is corruption at high levels in society but that is not the issue, the issue is that it's all wrong and needs addressing.

But your posts on the whole are bias towards the people on Benefits, as you say all fraud needs addressing not just the ones the media highlight and are the easiest to attack.

I'm sure like me you know plenty of working people willing to do jobs on the side for cash in hand, I've done them and I'm sure plenty others have, aren't we just as bad?

 

[SocketRocket]

But your posts on the whole are bias towards the people on Benefits, as you say all fraud needs addressing not just the ones the media highlight and are the easiest to attack.

I'm sure like me you know plenty of working people willing to do jobs on the side for cash in hand, I've done them and I'm sure plenty others have, aren't we just as bad?

This thread is about Benefit culture, that's why I am posting about it. If it was about Tax evasion I would also post about that. Of course I am aware of people who take cash in hand to avoid tax although I have never done this myself but that doesn't change my view that the real problem with benefits is much larger and serious than the unemployment figures portray.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This thread is about Benefit culture, that's why I am posting about it. If it was about Tax evasion I would also post about that. Of course I am aware of people who take cash in hand to avoid tax although I have never done this myself but that doesn't change my view that the real problem with benefits is much larger and serious than the unemployment figures portray.

I guess we'll always disagree then, that's the beauty at times of this forum, different perspectives from different experiences. :thup:

 

[SocketRocket]

I guess we'll always disagree then, that's the beauty at times of this forum, different perspectives from different experiences. :thup:

I can agree on that :thup:

 

[Raesy92]

In the U.K. There are lots of scoungers. Granted not all. But my Facebook is full of single mums who get two holidays abroad a year. No amount of penny pinching and shrewd saving should leave that much money free when your only income is benefits.

The sooner able bodied people are MADE to work for their benefits the better.

Single mums with two holidays abroad a year on benefits? I seriously doubt this claim. Mainly because my daughters mother was a single mum and when not working (although mostly working part-time) there is no way she would have been able to afford going abroad twice a year. That is with her receiving benefits and me giving money to help pay for my daughter.

 

[Hacker Khan]

This has gone way of track. The question is should fit and able bodied people on benefits be made to earn them. The thread is not about immigration, tax dodging or anything else along those lines.

Isn't guaranteeing work for anyone able to work, which I am assuming needs to happen to provide jobs for all these millions of benefit scroungers who are all bleeding the system dry (©Daily Mail) one of the key tenets of communism?

Not sure that would go down well in the average golf clubhouse.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm actually on holiday myself by the pool. And after a quick straw poll, no one here has paid for their 2 week break on Richard Bransons private island using benefit payments.

I just thought it was fair to point out that after some compelling evidence for one side of the argument, there are actually some people out there who go on 2 holidays a year not using job seakers allowance to pay for them.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Isn't guaranteeing work for anyone able to work, which I am assuming needs to happen to provide jobs for all these millions of benefit scroungers who are all bleeding the system dry (©Daily Mail) one of the key tenets of communism?

Not sure that would go down well in the average golf clubhouse.

You can call it anything you like. Personally, I would call it 'contributing to the system instead of expecting something for nothing'

I can't see a problem with litter picking, graffiti scrubbing, assisting the elderly, filling potholes in the road etc etc. I'm sure councils would love to do all those things to enhance our environment but don't have the money to do so yet we have a huge untapped resource pool sat at home watching Jeremy Kyle all day.

 

[Hacker Khan]

You can call it anything you like. Personally, I would call it 'contributing to the system instead of expecting something for nothing'

I can't see a problem with litter picking, graffiti scrubbing, assisting the elderly, filling potholes in the road etc etc. I'm sure councils would love to do all those things to enhance our environment but don't have the money to do so yet we have a huge untapped resource pool sat at home watching Jeremy Kyle all day.

So Karl Marx was onto something after all. Who knew?

 

[Hobbit]

I'm actually on holiday myself by the pool. And after a quick straw poll, no one here has paid for their 2 week break on Richard Bransons private island using benefit payments.

I just thought it was fair to point out that after some compelling evidence for one side of the argument, there are actually some people out there who go on 2 holidays a year not using job seakers allowance to pay for them.

If its anecdotal evidence we're considering I have a cousin who's just back from his annual Oct to Feb Spanish holiday. He hasn't worked for at least 10 years. I have another cousin, currently on a very long holiday in HM Prisons, who has never worked since leaving school 15-20 years ago. He has a holiday cottage in the Yorkshire Dales and a Range Rover, and he bought his mum a brand new Range Rover too. 2 of his brothers have never worked.

Their father never worked, ever. And although their grand parents worked till their late 40's, they never worked after that but still did the trip to Lourdes and then a Spanish holiday - their scam was brilliant. Get a council house, then separate and get a second council house. Get back together but rent the first council house out, but remember to swap out the dodgy gas meter that gets swapped out every 2 months.

The areas that Val alludes to very much exist. It isn't the benefits that are the issue, and I agree they should go up not down, its the very dodgy dealings and black market jobs that exist... I could give you reams of stories, all of which are supported by things like the 2x Spanish holidays and the brand new Range Rovers.

 

[MegaSteve]

I don't suppose too many have robbed 'the benefits system' of 14M and been allowed to walk..

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-reaching-deal-with-prosecutors-a3506696.html

Another hero for your gallery?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If its anecdotal evidence we're considering I have a cousin who's just back from his annual Oct to Feb Spanish holiday. He hasn't worked for at least 10 years. I have another cousin, currently on a very long holiday in HM Prisons, who has never worked since leaving school 15-20 years ago. He has a holiday cottage in the Yorkshire Dales and a Range Rover, and he bought his mum a brand new Range Rover too. 2 of his brothers have never worked.

Their father never worked, ever. And although their grand parents worked till their late 40's, they never worked after that but still did the trip to Lourdes and then a Spanish holiday - their scam was brilliant. Get a council house, then separate and get a second council house. Get back together but rent the first council house out, but remember to swap out the dodgy gas meter that gets swapped out every 2 months.

The areas that Val alludes to very much exist. It isn't the benefits that are the issue, and I agree they should go up not down, its the very dodgy dealings and black market jobs that exist... I could give you reams of stories, all of which are supported by things like the 2x Spanish holidays and the brand new Range Rovers.

To be fair though Bri, they sound more like career criminals, problem is they get lumped in with the genuine law abiding unemployed and are seen as no better or worse than the other 3 Million.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Then, when we've finished in Liverpool move onto...... :smirk:

And when we've finished in Liverpool, we'll move onto company directors who go bust, who can leave all sorts in their wake. :smirk:

 

[Val]

Single mums with two holidays abroad a year on benefits? I seriously doubt this claim. Mainly because my daughters mother was a single mum and when not working (although mostly working part-time) there is no way she would have been able to afford going abroad twice a year. That is with her receiving benefits and me giving money to help pay for my daughter.

Doubt it all you like, it happens. Many of these "single" mothers have boyfriends or live in partners who go undeclared to the authorities because declaring them will cut their benefits.