Benefits culture

[SocketRocket]

There is always a problem with any tightening of the benefits system based on the adversarial nature of our party system. If benefits are cut then the immediate response is for the opposing party and the media to go into attack mode and berate any decision as taking money from those in need even if that is not the case. As such, it is rare for any widespread benefit reform.

My opinion, we have developed a society of people who feel that they are 'entitled'. Benefits should apply to the bare essentials in life, housing, heating and food (as well as anything relating to any medical condition). What we have now is a section of society that feels that benefits should cover TVs, Sky, games consoles, Ipads and my pet hate, booze and fags. There is an argument that very little, if anything, in the way of benefits should be paid direct to the recipients. If the money was paid direct to the landlord, utility companies and the rest paid in food vouchers then the extravagancies that it currently funds would disappear. That may sound harsh but I look at how I spend my wages and if there was nothing left after paying the mortgage, bills and food costs then all of the other things go out the window. I quite smoking when I was made redundant during the recession and stopped going out because I could not afford it. Hell, I have no idea how most people can afford to smoke £10 a pack.

A good post

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Am I really. Maybe you would like to back up that accusation or take it back. I wait for your detailed reply.

It's just my impression...of course I might be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There is always a problem with any tightening of the benefits system based on the adversarial nature of our party system. If benefits are cut then the immediate response is for the opposing party and the media to go into attack mode and berate any decision as taking money from those in need even if that is not the case. As such, it is rare for any widespread benefit reform.

My opinion, we have developed a society of people who feel that they are 'entitled'. Benefits should apply to the bare essentials in life, housing, heating and food (as well as anything relating to any medical condition). What we have now is a section of society that feels that benefits should cover TVs, Sky, games consoles, Ipads and my pet hate, booze and fags. There is an argument that very little, if anything, in the way of benefits should be paid direct to the recipients. If the money was paid direct to the landlord, utility companies and the rest paid in food vouchers then the extravagancies that it currently funds would disappear. That may sound harsh but I look at how I spend my wages and if there was nothing left after paying the mortgage, bills and food costs then all of the other things go out the window. I quite smoking when I was made redundant during the recession and stopped going out because I could not afford it. Hell, I have no idea how most people can afford to smoke £10 a pack.

Again totally agree all benefit fraud is wrong.

The last Government figures I can find showed that 1.6 Billion was fraudently claimed, 2.2 Billion was over paid by official and claimant error, Public Sector fraud was 20 Billion which included 14.9 Billion tax fraud.

My issue with statements like the one above is, you're targeting the most vulnerable, what about the dodgy landlords that won't look after properties who you'd pay, do you not think the scumbags would sell food vouchers to the detriment of the kids, we have mote food banks now than we ever did before. Not everybody on benefits drinks and smokes.

It's not as simple as targeting one area, it needs all areas targeting on a level playing field.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is always a problem with any tightening of the benefits system based on the adversarial nature of our party system. If benefits are cut then the immediate response is for the opposing party and the media to go into attack mode and berate any decision as taking money from those in need even if that is not the case. As such, it is rare for any widespread benefit reform.

My opinion, we have developed a society of people who feel that they are 'entitled'. Benefits should apply to the bare essentials in life, housing, heating and food (as well as anything relating to any medical condition). What we have now is a section of society that feels that benefits should cover TVs, Sky, games consoles, Ipads and my pet hate, booze and fags. There is an argument that very little, if anything, in the way of benefits should be paid direct to the recipients. If the money was paid direct to the landlord, utility companies and the rest paid in food vouchers then the extravagancies that it currently funds would disappear. That may sound harsh but I look at how I spend my wages and if there was nothing left after paying the mortgage, bills and food costs then all of the other things go out the window. I quite smoking when I was made redundant during the recession and stopped going out because I could not afford it. Hell, I have no idea how most people can afford to smoke £10 a pack.

I agree that our society across the board is much more one of individual entitlement - a society deep in ISMs - I Self Me.

Some of the poorer feel entitled to have the stuff you mention; some of the wealthy feel entitled to keep as much as possible of what they earn and to live the quality of life to which that they have become accustomed. Threaten the entitlements of anyone across that spectrum and you fuel resentments, anger, fear and the hunt for a scapegoat.

And so on June 23rd many looked around and saw immigrants in our country and voted as they did. Because a scapegoat was required.

 

[Hobbit]

But its an infringement of their human rights that those that were brought up in a benefits culture shouldn't be able to go out several nights a week and have two holidays in Tenerife every year.

Tongue in cheek before the professionally offended start squealing.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree that our society across the board is much more one of individual entitlement - a society deep in ISMs - I Self Me.

Some of the poorer feel entitled to have the stuff you mention; some of the wealthy feel entitled to keep as much as possible of what they earn and to live the quality of life to which that they have become accustomed. Threaten the entitlements of anyone across that spectrum and you fuel resentments, anger, fear and the hunt for a scapegoat.

And so on June 23rd many looked around and saw immigrants in our country and voted as they did. Because a scapegoat was required.

Seriously!!! Brexit again, you should've stopped after scapegoat, it goes a good post to "oh here we go again"

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But its an infringement of their human rights that those that were brought up in a benefits culture shouldn't be able to go out several nights a week and have two holidays in Tenerife every year.

Tongue in cheek before the professionally offended start squealing.

Your place isn't in Tenerife

 

[Hobbit]

Your place isn't in Tenerife

And its Waaay more than two holidays

 

[SocketRocket]

I agree that our society across the board is much more one of individual entitlement - a society deep in ISMs - I Self Me.

Some of the poorer feel entitled to have the stuff you mention; some of the wealthy feel entitled to keep as much as possible of what they earn and to live the quality of life to which that they have become accustomed. Threaten the entitlements of anyone across that spectrum and you fuel resentments, anger, fear and the hunt for a scapegoat.

And so on June 23rd many looked around and saw immigrants in our country and voted as they did. Because a scapegoat was required.

You really are getting worse. Brexititis is in most cases a mild form of paranoia but in your case totally incurable and liable to self combustion. Keep away from naked flames.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Seriously!!! Brexit again, you should've stopped after scapegoat, it goes a good post to "oh here we go again"

I was just giving an example of where I believe that our sense of entitlement has brought us...and why I believe there is so much resentment around immigrants. It's simply entitlement threatened - leading to resentment, fear and ultimately -
anger...

 

[SocketRocket]

I was just giving an example of where I believe that our sense of entitlement has brought us...and why I believe there is so much resentment around immigrants. It's simply entitlement threatened - leading to resentment, fear and ultimately -
anger...

I fail to see how entitlement has anything to do with peoples feelings over immigration. If your post has an underlying meaning associated with the recent attack on an asylum seeker then it's a pretty low punch.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I was just giving an example of where I believe that our sense of entitlement has brought us...and why I believe there is so much resentment around immigrants. It's simply entitlement threatened - leading to resentment, fear and ultimately -
anger...

Purely my opinion, but it would be this way with or without Brexit, the me me me culture started with in the late 70's and scum will always be scum.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I fail to see how entitlement has anything to do with peoples feelings over immigration. If your post has an underlying meaning associated with the recent attack on an asylum seeker then it's a pretty low punch.

If you don't see how some people's feelings of entitlement to - for example - get their child into the local school of their choice - and that they feel resentful and angry when they can't and there are many from the immigrant community who have got there children in - then I am not sure what I can do to explain.

And I wasn't for one second thinking about the Croydon attack - though it is interesting that you are. Underlying meaning...? You read too much between the lines.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Purely my opinion, but it would be this way with or without Brexit, the me me me culture started with in the late 70's and scum will always be scum.

Oh it did. I hesitate to mention Harry Enfields 'Loadsamoney', and the government of 1979 onwards that following on from the 'winter of discontent'.

We have gradually become ever more entitled - across the board - and when angry and unhappy will lash out looking for a scapegoat - whoever that might be at the time.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

We have gradually become ever more entitled - across the board - and when angry and unhappy will lash out looking for a scapegoat - whoever that might be at the time.

For as long as it's possible to look back, societies have always looked for a scapegoat when angry and unhappy. This has nothing to do with entitlement, it's human/pack mentality. Find me any period in history when it hasn't happened and I'll be very impressed...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For as long as it's possible to look back, societies have always looked for a scapegoat when angry and unhappy. This has nothing to do with entitlement, it's human/pack mentality. Find me any period in history when it hasn't happened and I'll be very impressed...

I'm not saying that entitlement is at the root of all resentments and anger in society - but that it is a fairly recent development.

And it is my view that the rise in the feelings of entitlement in society has been at the same time as individuals become more concerned and interested in themselves, and less interested and caring about others - unless, that is, the others have something I want and do not have, and so my jealousy leads to resentment leads to anger leads to lashing out - looking...

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm not saying that entitlement is at the root of all resentments and anger in society - but that it is a fairly recent development.

And it is my view that the rise in the feelings of entitlement in society has been at the same time as individuals become more concerned and interested in themselves, and less interested and caring about others - unless, that is, the others have something I want and do not have, and so my jealousy leads to resentment leads to anger leads to lashing out - looking...

As mentioned its never been different and becomes worse when encouraged. It's more about 'Learned Behavior' than 'Entitlement' If a child gets their way by screaming and crying then they will scream and cry to get their way.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As mentioned its never been different and becomes worse when encouraged. It's more about 'Learned Behavior' than 'Entitlement' If a child gets their way by screaming and crying then they will scream and cry to get their way.

That may well be the case for some situations - but what is 'learned behaviour' when a parent gets angry when they can't get their child into the local good school...a school that they feel that they are entitled to get their child into because they live in the area - and getting their child into the school being the reason they bought their expensive house in the area - and that they can't because it is full.

 

[Hacker Khan]

That may well be the case for some situations - but what is 'learned behaviour' when a parent gets angry when they can't get their child into the local good school...a school that they feel that they are entitled to get their child into because they live in the area - and getting their child into the school being the reason they bought their expensive house in the area - and that they can't because it is full.

As a chair of governors I'd advise the appeals process if the parents think they have a good case.

Also before they move do some research on the catchment area. And the admissions criteria and how many applications they get for each place. Do they for example prioritise kids with siblings already in the school out of catchment over those without within catchment.

This can save a lot of heartache and stamp duty.

 

[SocketRocket]

That may well be the case for some situations - but what is 'learned behaviour' when a parent gets angry when they can't get their child into the local good school...a school that they feel that they are entitled to get their child into because they live in the area - and getting their child into the school being the reason they bought their expensive house in the area - and that they can't because it is full.

That's very much learned behavior. They have seen or read (learned) that buying an expensive house in the area will give them some advantage to get their children into the school they want, so that's what they try to do.