Benefits culture

[Val]

Benefits are a real pet hate of mine as I believe there is a majority who shouldn't even get them. There are those who won't/cant (delete as appropriate) work but spend their benefit money on drugs and booze. If I was taking drugs or tipped up for work with drink on me i'd lose my job, these types should be drug tested and if they fail their benefits should no longer be paid in cash, it should be food tokens and they should be made produce ID to use them to save them selling them on.

The town I was born and bred in is full of these people. Our local doctors surgery is frightening.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's very much learned behavior. They have seen or read (learned) that buying an expensive house in the area will give them some advantage to get their children into the school they want, so that's what they try to do.

OK - I think we can reach a compromise agreed position here - I can accept that many, perhaps all, feelings of entitlement originate in learned behaviours...

And I propose that that must be the case - because the only feeling of entitlement we are born with is that of feeding at our mother's breast...and hence all other feelings of entitlement we have must originate and develop from our learning.

How's that...

 

[SocketRocket]

OK - I think we can reach a compromise agreed position here - I can accept that many, perhaps all, feelings of entitlement originate in learned behaviours...

And I propose that that must be the case - because the only feeling of entitlement we are born with is that of feeding at our mother's breast...and hence all other feelings of entitlement we have must originate and develop from our learning.

How's that...

Have you studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs principles?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Have you studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs principles?

As it happens I know a bit about it. It was groundbreaking in it's day, but had since been criticised as being too simplistic. In that peoples needs vary a lot by culture, circumstances and indeed sex.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

wooosh...

 

[craigstardis1976]

Benefits are a real pet hate of mine as I believe there is a majority who shouldn't even get them. There are those who won't/cant (delete as appropriate) work but spend their benefit money on drugs and booze. If I was taking drugs or tipped up for work with drink on me i'd lose my job, these types should be drug tested and if they fail their benefits should no longer be paid in cash, it should be food tokens and they should be made produce ID to use them to save them selling them on.

The town I was born and bred in is full of these people. Our local doctors surgery is frightening.

Val:

And it is people with an attitude like yours that can cause a great deal of poverty and unneeded suffering.

When I was ill here in America I lost my apartment, my savings, and ended up homeless on the streets, Obamacare wouldn't help, housing would not help because I did not fit the profiles of those they decided who was most in need. I was also the victim of a terrible crime that the Police would not help with. My dog and I nearly froze to death in a winter where temperatures reached -40F.

Your stereotyping is not only unhelpful but also harmful. I never resorted to drinks or drugs and I am not the exception who proves the rule. Many people in need are there because of catastrophic events in peoples lives and do not say "Well of course they should be catered for" - the truth is people with your attitude who are quite happy to broadly tar people with the same brush from the comfort of their living room are often the ones who actually do little to help or alleviate the situation.

As you are so quick to criticize and decide how people should be helped and treated why not go out and speak to the homeless and try to help someone who has the potential to rebuild their lives as I did. You could see me on the golf course this weekend and not know what I went through because someone gave me a chance and I capitalized on it. And do not think it could not happen to you...

 

[ger147]

Val:

And it is people with an attitude like yours that can cause a great deal of poverty and unneeded suffering.

When I was ill here in America I lost my apartment, my savings, and ended up homeless on the streets, Obamacare wouldn't help, housing would not help because I did not fit the profiles of those they decided who was most in need. I was also the victim of a terrible crime that the Police would not help with. My dog and I nearly froze to death in a winter where temperatures reached -40F.

Your stereotyping is not only unhelpful but also harmful. I never resorted to drinks or drugs and I am not the exception who proves the rule. Many people in need are there because of catastrophic events in peoples lives and do not say "Well of course they should be catered for" - the truth is people with your attitude who are quite happy to broadly tar people with the same brush from the comfort of their living room are often the ones who actually do little to help or alleviate the situation.

As you are so quick to criticize and decide how people should be helped and treated why not go out and speak to the homeless and try to help someone who has the potential to rebuild their lives as I did. You could see me on the golf course this weekend and not know what I went through because someone gave me a chance and I capitalized on it. And do not think it could not happen to you...

You've obviously never been to North Lanarkshire in Scotland.

And these people aren't homeless but are living a very comfortable life in many cases via the benefits they receive i.e. cars, holidays, busy social lives etc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Val:

And it is people with an attitude like yours that can cause a great deal of poverty and unneeded suffering.

When I was ill here in America I lost my apartment, my savings, and ended up homeless on the streets, Obamacare wouldn't help, housing would not help because I did not fit the profiles of those they decided who was most in need. I was also the victim of a terrible crime that the Police would not help with. My dog and I nearly froze to death in a winter where temperatures reached -40F.

Your stereotyping is not only unhelpful but also harmful. I never resorted to drinks or drugs and I am not the exception who proves the rule. Many people in need are there because of catastrophic events in peoples lives and do not say "Well of course they should be catered for" - the truth is people with your attitude who are quite happy to broadly tar people with the same brush from the comfort of their living room are often the ones who actually do little to help or alleviate the situation.

As you are so quick to criticize and decide how people should be helped and treated why not go out and speak to the homeless and try to help someone who has the potential to rebuild their lives as I did. You could see me on the golf course this weekend and not know what I went through because someone gave me a chance and I capitalized on it. And do not think it could not happen to you...

Unless I'm mistaken Val is talking about the people who are homeless and struggling

He is talking about the malingering percentage of scrounges who do nothing but live of welfare even though they are capable of getting out their to work , the type who spend all their benefits on booze and fags , the ones who see it as pay day

There are ladies out there earning £30k plus whilst on benefits allow plus free housing all because they couldn't keep their legs crossed , or indeed get pregnant on purpose as it earns them money

Val's attitude towards these scroungers is spot on

 

[craigstardis1976]

You've obviously never been to North Lanarkshire in Scotland.

And these people aren't homeless but are living a very comfortable life in many cases via the benefits they receive i.e. cars, holidays, busy social lives etc.

And what about the people who are not?

 

[craigstardis1976]

Unless I'm mistaken Val is talking about the people who are homeless and struggling

He is talking about the malingering percentage of scrounges who do nothing but live of welfare even though they are capable of getting out their to work , the type who spend all their benefits on booze and fags , the ones who see it as pay day

There are ladies out there earning £30k plus whilst on benefits allow plus free housing all because they couldn't keep their legs crossed , or indeed get pregnant on purpose as it earns them money

Val's attitude towards these scroungers is spot on

In all of those "types" you mention there are stories behind them that cannot just be summed up in the way you and Val have.

Addressing the stories and investing money in ways to help people off dependency and back on their feet is a far more productive way forward than the already limited ways forward for people in a situation where they have to be on benefits when many of the people they may try and get a job with have the attitude towards the underclass displayed by you and Val.

You cannot have it both ways. You can either stigmatize people on benefits as worthless good for nothings or see their potential and urge those in power to redirect their resources to helping people maximize their potential so they can become productive members of society.

 

[ger147]

And what about the people who are not?

Val isn't talking about them and neither am I...

 

[SocketRocket]

In all of those "types" you mention there are stories behind them that cannot just be summed up in the way you and Val have.

Addressing the stories and investing money in ways to help people off dependency and back on their feet is a far more productive way forward than the already limited ways forward for people in a situation where they have to be on benefits when many of the people they may try and get a job with have the attitude towards the underclass displayed by you and Val.

You cannot have it both ways. You can either stigmatize people on benefits as worthless good for nothings or see their potential and urge those in power to redirect their resources to helping people maximize their potential so they can become productive members of society.

You are missing the point. There are the people who are genuinely on hard times or have real disabilities including mental health and there are those who prefer a life spending other peoples money or more to the point stopping tax being used to improve things like health and education. We are not talking about the USA here but the UK.

 

[Papas1982]

In all of those "types" you mention there are stories behind them that cannot just be summed up in the way you and Val have.

Addressing the stories and investing money in ways to help people off dependency and back on their feet is a far more productive way forward than the already limited ways forward for people in a situation where they have to be on benefits when many of the people they may try and get a job with have the attitude towards the underclass displayed by you and Val.

You cannot have it both ways. You can either stigmatize people on benefits as worthless good for nothings or see their potential and urge those in power to redirect their resources to helping people maximize their potential so they can become productive members of society.

In the U.K. There are lots of scoungers. Granted not all. But my Facebook is full of single mums who get two holidays abroad a year. No amount of penny pinching and shrewd saving should leave that much money free when your only income is benefits.

The sooner able bodied people are MADE to work for their benefits the better.

 

[craigstardis1976]

You are missing the point. There are the people who are genuinely on hard times or have real disabilities including mental health and there are those who prefer a life spending other peoples money or more to the point stopping tax being used to improve things like health and education. We are not talking about the USA here but the UK.

With respect you are missing the point. Looking down on the underclass, even those who "prefer a life spending other peoples money" is not going to change unless social services can get to the root cause of what causes people to be like this and addresses that with the goal of bringing them from that point to becoming productive members of society. I bet in the vast amount of cases where people who "prefer a life of spending other peoples money" - there are more underlying reasons as to why they feel that way. Address those and you might see people getting away from that lifestyle of choice.

 

[craigstardis1976]

In the U.K. There are lots of scoungers. Granted not all. But my Facebook is full of single mums who get two holidays abroad a year. No amount of penny pinching and shrewd saving should leave that much money free when your only income is benefits.

The sooner able bodied people are MADE to work for their benefits the better.

All of course independently verified by your self I have no doubt...

 

[Papas1982]

All of course independently verified by your self I have no doubt...

As it's my Facebook list, yes. I know them all personally. So I know who works and who doesn't.

There are some people who need benefits. And that's what the system is for. But far too many manipulate it. Give everyone who needs food stamps. It would save loads of money.

In this Day and age. I can only accept that the most severely disabled, physically or mentally have a real reason not to work. And those on the street, obviously need help too. I've a daughter with cerebral palsy, so whilst I accept she may nit be a surgeon or a golfer (although I happen to know a very good one). She will have no excuse for not working.

There are are enough flexible jobs now for all to get employment. It's those that choose not too as they feel they are too good for it, or would be no better off (common phrase) that wind me up.

I had a single mum, stopped working til we were at school, then did part time and eventually full time as we got older. If you want nice things. Earn them, don't expect them to be handed to you.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Unfortunately Craig as much as I see what you're saying you've missed the point Val and others are making.

Whether you like it or not for all the genuine cases out there, we have complete and utter scum taking the p1ss out of the system (professional scroungers) and they need locking up.

They are a tiny proportion and they get the majority of media coverage and there are a lot urban myths about these types, ie, people getting £30K a year on benefits, the benefit cap is £400.00 per week, still a very large sum in some peoples opinion for doing nothing.

We hear there are enough jobs out there for everybody, if there was, people far cleverer than me and others on here would of solved the problem by now.

There is abuse in every system and we already know there is far more abuse at the top than there is at the bottom, unfortunately the normal man in the street doesn't mix with the rich and powerful who abuse the system, we mix with the poor and unfortunate and there are a proportion of these who do not contribute in anyway to society and need sorting out.

 

[Fish]

We should have early morning raids on houses where benefits are being paid into!

If they have Sky/Virgin TV, rip it out: An ashtray full of ciggie butts and a bin full of tinnies, stop their benefits: A car, repossess it and sell it: Designer clothes, sell them and buy them some overalls: An iPhone, sell it and exchange it for a cheap Nokia:

Everything that has been repossessed and sold they get back 20% of the proceeds because the raids have to be paid for.

Then, when we've finished in Liverpool move onto...... :smirk:

 

[Fish]

He's not. Absolutely not. He just tells me of the problems with being on a zero hours contract when you can claim 'in work' benefits if the hours you end up working one week qualify you - but the next week they don't.

I can hardly tell you how pleased he was to have this job - £7.05 an hour - the rate didn't bother him - what he was absolutely ecstatic about was that it was full time contracted hours.

It shouldn't, £1222.00 (£282.00 p/wk) was £170.00 (£40.00 p/wk) in 1975. My first job in 1975 before going into the forces was £15 p/wk for 6-days unloading 20 tonne lorries of bagged cement/plaster by hand in a builders merchants!!!

How many would do that now?

We have, and have created a lazy, I want/deserve and claim culture.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It shouldn't, £1222.00 (£282.00 p/wk) was £170.00 (£40.00 p/wk) in 1975. My first job in 1975 before going into the forces was £15 p/wk for 6-days unloading 20 tonne lorries of bagged cement/plaster by hand in a builders merchants!!!

How many would do that now?

We have, and have created a lazy, I want/deserve and claim culture.

That culture goes top to bottom sadly Robin.