Bandits, what can the pose do?

[Parmo]

Morning All,
Just following on from the cheating threat and didn't want to hijack it so thought I would start a thread about the dreaded Bandittos!!

Anyway in my short time in golf so far I have come across two, one abroad who played off 19 and hit every FIR & GIR and was only 4+ at 9 on a course he insisted he had not played before (Las Ramblas so tough course) when we walked off in disgust. The other cheat at my home course who won nearly every comp year in and out not forgetting any weekends away who also played of 19 when in reality was more like 6-8.

Why do people have to resort to this type of cheating? it just takes the p**** out of the system and golf itself. The second guy after many and a few years of complaints about his banditry was cut and he left in protest and played poorly at his new club to obtain his cat 3 or 4 hcp.

Have you guys reported bandits? Do you think members should have all comp cards entered into the ring to give an even hcp overall? Is hanging too good for them?

 

[Ken_A]

I dont understand how they are bandits if they enter all of their competition cards. If you are marking his card and you think he is purposley throwing away a few shots then I would refuse to sign his card and complain to the comittee.

I try to win every comp I enter and I dont hide the fact - where as in bounce games I try theodd tiger shot etcc and have fun. I dont really understand cheats.

 

[Ken_A]

BTW we can get cut from every GUI white stick comp - that means if we enter a comp on Sat or Sunday then we can gat cut (or a 0.1 in my case )

 

[ColinR]

Thankfully, I have not come up against it, However, this week was close and I had to put a friend on the staight narrow.

I have played with a friend of mine for a couple of years, only about 3-4 rounds, but he is always about 11-15 shots over par. I took him onto my course, which is narrow and challenging where he shot an 11 over. Impressive.

Since then he applied to become a member and was accepted, he gave them some evidence of his golf and was about to get a 21 handicap from day one. HOLD UP A MINUTE I said to the Secretary, this guy is better than that I suggest you put him through the 'handing in three cards' process as I know he is better than that !!

So he now has to put three cards in.

So what sort of mate am I ?

 

[Smiffy]

The only time I have come across an "out and out" bandit was when a friend and I entered The Daily Mail foursomes, or some similar competiton (it was a while ago!).
Competiton was matchplay, and we got through to the quarter finals and were drawn to play a couple of guys from (I hate to say it medwayjohn) Gillingham Golf Club. Can't remember their names by the way.
I was off 14 at the time, my mate was off 9.
The two guys we had been drawn against were off exactly the same handicaps so we were looking forward to a right old "ding dong"...
Turned up at the alloted time, said our hello's and got down to business.
Within a couple of holes, we soon worked out who the danger man was...the 14 handicapper.
The 9 handicapper was a good player, but the other guy was outdriving him by a good 30 to 40 yards on every hole, never missed a fairway, and when he played his second shots you didn't have to watch the ball, you just looked at the pin and waited.
My mate and I were playing good golf but within 6 holes we were 3 down. We managed to peg it back a couple during he match but I think we ended up losing 4 & 3.
My mate was so annoyed to feel that we had been cheated in this way that he said he wasn't stopping for a drink afterwards as he might say something he regretted. I managed to calm him down and talk him into stopping because of the distance we had driven to get there.
In the clubhouse afterwards we got chatting to the "bandit" and asked him how his handicap was so high and he admitted to never playing in club competitons and just turning up during the week, playing with his mates and taking the money. He also said that in a society he was a member of, his handicap had been cut to 8!!
I said "wouldn't you rather be playing off 8 and scoring 35 points than playing off 14 scoring over 40 every time?"
His reply?
"Well I wouldn't win anything would I?"

Total and utter cheat.
(They were "done" in the final by the way)

 

[Parmo]

I dont understand how they are bandits if they enter all of their competition cards. If you are marking his card and you think he is purposley throwing away a few shots then I would refuse to sign his card and complain to the comittee.

I am not 100% on this but I don't think all comp cards count towards your hcp, and so someone given say 20hcp can play to it for as long as they want without being cut, not sure if this is blanket or just some clubs.

 

[USER1999]

My club have won the daily mail before, but not with bandits, I think you have to nominate a team of 4 players, and I think our total handicaps for the 4 was better than scratch (we did have a plus 5, a couple of scratches and a hacker off 1 or there abouts). I think the Daily Mail now requires h/cap certificates (it should do).

I also have met two bandits in my time, and both were eventually forced to join other clubs. Every thing they wore or played with had been won.

Most of my fellow club members have true h/caps as far as I am aware, although I have met a couple who seem to cheat like a cheeting thing. The odd thing is they still shoot rubbish scores, and never win anything, so no one really cares.

 

[Hurleronditch]

Parmo its not the players fault, its the club, if he keeps shooting way under the sss or css in competitive rounds, and hands his card in, the responisbility lies with the h'cap secretary/committee to give him the appropriate cutting.

How any club will let a guy win a load of comps of 19 and not cut him is plain stupidity, whilst some of the onus lies with the player, some people arent too well versed on the ettiquete of golf, and maybe yer man just sees hes not getting cut, keeps playing, and keeps taking home the crystal.

 

[Parmo]

If you hand in your comp card, does it have to count towards your hcp or not?

 

[Smiffy]

Parmo its not the players fault, its the club, if he keeps shooting way under the sss or css in competitive rounds, and hands his card in, the responisbility lies with the h'cap secretary/committee to give him the appropriate cutting.

Totally agree.
When I first started playing I was off 23 (God knows why, I was hacking around all over the place)...
I struggled for a few years and was desperate to get my h'cap down.
When I did start playing well, I was like a little puppy begging for a bone when I handed a card in, always asking for the biggest cut I could get! Luckily the secretary at Crowborough was/is pretty (yes it was a SHE! lol!!)
I would much rather stand at the bar and say I was a 12 handicapper than a 23......

 

[Smiffy]

If you hand in your comp card, does it have to count towards your hcp or not?

If it's not a "qualifier" then no...but if you are honest with yourself and the secretary and you believe that the card reflects your true playing ability then they should (should) listen to you
Rob

 

[brendy]

I know everyone can have a purple patch but it seems some people do hold onto their handicaps so they can play in specific competitions and take advantage of other genuine competitors. I love playing well and love equally seeing my handicap come down. I wouldnt like to be artificially low so being honest is the best policy and it will work istelf out.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I got my first handicap back at Ascot and was given 20. I actually tried my heart out for those three cards but played in force 8 gales and waterlogged course as it was the only time my partners could mark the card and in order to get them done in time to enter certain competitions.

I have been down to single figures as a teenager but hadn't played regularly before rejoining. I was hoping to get a 15 or so and so was partly miffed/happy. I then found my new coach and my swing improved and it just clicked. I played midweek (I was redundant and had nothing better to do - job, what job) and so my putting was hot and my short game sharp. Everyone was commenting on how my swing looked single figure and of course I managed to win a couple of medals and stablefords and get a couple more top threes. I went from 20 to 13 in 4 months. Since then I have only defended my handicap once this season (after a lesson with my original coach and promptly went out and won a stableford).

The point is I never ducked a competition and put my cards in week in and week out so I don't feel I was a bandit. I've averaged out at 14 and I think given the state of my game over the season it is fair.

I think the problem lies solely with the guys that get a high handicap and never enter competitions to defend it. We have a minimum of 3 qualifying cards required for all our gold letter events so if they want to play in the glory events they have to at least put 3 cards in although strangely they always seem to have a bad week that week. Not much the handicap guys can do if they aren't entering the comps.

Have to be honest though I've met a few guys that are plainly defending their handicap artificially high and have told them bluntly it is cheating. Some seemed shocked that anyone has dared to mention it while others like other posts on here have fronted it out saying they are only after winning things

 

[Smiffy]

I've never understood why a club can't reduce somebodys handicap as a "penalty" if they are not handing cards in on a regular basis.
If it's stopping them being bandits then great, if it's penalising players that aren't playing well then the way round it is to hand cards in.

 

[Imurg]

When I rejoined my club after 5 years self imposed exile I asked the Secretarty what we were gioing to do about my handicap. When I left it was 9.3 (had been as low as 8.1). I had been playing the odd game here and there so he asked me to say honestly what I was playing to. I replied that 12 to 14 would seem about right and we agreed to split the difference at 13. Next day I went out and played exactly to 13 so we got it right.

But if I'd said 18-20 I could have got 19 and cleaned up for a while. But the thought of that turns me cold.

We just have to face facts. In every walk of life there are cheats. People who for one reason or another can't have or do what they would like. These people are the lowlifes of society but at the end of the day there's not much we can do except look at them and say " I play to the rules - do you?"

 

[viscount17]

golf must be the only game in which the players actively seek to make it harder for themselves and the strangest thing is that for the vast majority of us, that spirit infects us from the very beginning.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand those who will deliberately throw away a round to falsely protect a handicap. I understand why they do it - I just don't understand them.

This may be controversial (tough), but I regard those who create or obtain fake handicap certificates in order to gain access to courses or competitions in much the same light.

 

[USER1999]

I have clearly masqueraded as a 12 handicap for 15 years, putting in 20 or so false cards every year purely in order to pip Sammmebee on a count back at Crowborough Beacon. Sorry guys.

 

[Herbie]

It depends on the club and fellow players to some degree.If a club dont have a strict system of checks and fail to follow up on people who deliberately bin cards or do certain things so they are binned. Clubs that dont have strict policy often dont count comps such as stableford for h/c assessment, some only use stroke play comp scores. Its all pretty difficult to police properly. The only way perhaps is for every game played by a group of player members should be scored and cards handed in. Even stableford scores can give a good indication to a players standard.If the club know how people play all the time,they are better placed to do something about cheats. They do exist!

 

[brendy]

I have lost count how many cards Ive had going this year only to have a monumental 7 at a par 4 (had an 8 at a 150 yard par 3 with no danger bar a few trees and a couple of bunkers) which destroys my confidence for a couple of holes which usually results in a second blunder and a double. I assume thats why ive had a couple of clause 19.8s on my rounds which kept me in the buffer zone for handicap purposes.