I'm the one that everyone's moaning about...

The Squirrel said:
And that’s why it’s a silly fun format just for a laugh. This is NOT a WHS handicap problem, just a format problem. Good shots from 2cap and 15cap golfers are basically identical while the format of multiple attempts removes the 15cappers great disadvantage (much worse consistency with far greater propensity to chuck in hooks/slices/shanks/duffs).

Doesn’t matter what handicap system you use - one that is based on single ball stroke play simply cannnot directly transfer cleanly to this hugely different format.
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I’ve never played a scramble but I think this is accurate, it seems logical after all..

As a very good shot from a 12 ‘cap is very similar to a very good shot from a scratch golfer — it’s the lack of consistency and likelihood of many more bad shots from the 12 ’capper, that makes the difference

And this is much reduced as @The Squirrel says in a scramble format of more chances in a four person team
 
I don't know if it's my age and who I play against, but in my experience most golfers near scratch can hit tee shots of a length and long irons/ fairway woods that I as a mid handicapper can only dream of.
Shorter shots, my best may be comparable to their decent ones, but long shots I don't come close ever.
 
The Squirrel said:
And that’s why it’s a silly fun format just for a laugh. This is NOT a WHS handicap problem, just a format problem. Good shots from 2cap and 15cap golfers are basically identical while the format of multiple attempts removes the 15cappers great disadvantage (much worse consistency with far greater propensity to chuck in hooks/slices/shanks/duffs).

Doesn’t matter what handicap system you use - one that is based on single ball stroke play simply cannnot directly transfer cleanly to this hugely different format.
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It’s tough to find a balance

We have two a year

For one which was just a fun one as such - it was just 3 drives per person and 15% of combined HC

For the board one - it was 4 drives per person and 10% of combined HC

The winners were very much spread out and it was very close a lot of times

Since the change now you don’t have a chance of you have one person of HC 2/3 below
 
Backache said:
I don't know if it's my age and who I play against, but in my experience most golfers near scratch can hit tee shots of a length and long irons/ fairway woods that I as a mid handicapper can only dream of.
Shorter shots, my best may be comparable to their decent ones, but long shots I don't come close ever.
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I played with a 15 handicapper last weekend who could drive a ball over 300 yards. Played with plenty of mid handicappers who can drive the ball a healthy distance, over 250 yards, which is plenty at most courses.

Played with plenty of very low handicappers who don't hit the ball a great distance, but they rarely duff a shot.

I suspect age is a bigger factor in the distance one hits a ball than high/low handicap
 
Swango1980 said:
I played with a 15 handicapper last weekend who could drive a ball over 300 yards. Played with plenty of mid handicappers who can drive the ball a healthy distance, over 250 yards, which is plenty at most courses.

Played with plenty of very low handicappers who don't hit the ball a great distance, but they rarely duff a shot.

I suspect age is a bigger factor in the distance one hits a ball than high/low handicap
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Technology is the big difference imo.
Modern clubs can hide a lot of faults.

Seen 20+ caps splitting fairways but short game is non existent.
Most low men have a good short game it’s where they score if there not long!
 
I changed from woods to metal after playing with a guy who kept miss hitting his metal 10 yards past me, came home and told the wife it's a joke, remember Seve complained about the new Ping irons that would generate backspin out of the rough.

Technology has made a lot of courses obsolete for the Pro's, but so much for Amateurs.
 
AussieKB said:
I changed from woods to metal after playing with a guy who kept miss hitting his metal 10 yards past me, came home and told the wife it's a joke, remember Seve complained about the new Ping irons that would generate backspin out of the rough.

Technology has made a lot of courses obsolete for the Pro's, but so much for Amateurs.
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Yes agree
But it shows in the short game ! You can’t buy touch.
 
Orikoru said:
I don't understand why the allowances are staggered like that (25, 20, 15, 10). Instead of just saying it's the same off everyone. Can someone explain it to me like I'm 5?
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Over here the Texas Scrambles are two-man teams and they use an average of the two handicaps, so basically if you're a low handicapper it's a race to find a 54 handicapper just to show up - yep that means a scratch golfer is getting 27 shots, without any restrictions (minimum drives etc)!
 
Arthur Wedge said:
And it’s why I know for our next scramble most of the low HC teams just won’t be bothering anymore - it’s just not worth it when there is little to no chance of being competitive
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Maybe the change of calculation promotes inclusivity. It encourages low HC players to form teams with higher HC players instead of remaining in their little elite clique. Scrambles are supposed to be fun comps after all.
 
sunshine said:
Maybe the change of calculation promotes inclusivity. It encourages low HC players to form teams with higher HC players instead of remaining in their little elite clique. Scrambles are supposed to be fun comps after all.
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Elite clique ?

Doesn’t matter what the make up - with the change in allowances there is zero point anyone with a very low HC entering into a team

Yes it is supposed to be fun - it was fun before they dreamt up allowances, now it’s no longer fun because its unbalanced towards high HCs

In a scramble no one should be getting 15/16 more shots than another team

It’s made it very hard for anyone low to “compete” - then it becomes a waste and people will stop bothering - hence why once popular events now have loads of gaps
 
Arthur Wedge said:
Elite clique ?
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Probably a fair description of the entitled low handicappers who do little else but complain about having to scoring well in order to stand a chance, having had 100 years of being able to win with average scoring.

Arthur Wedge said:
Doesn’t matter what the make up - with the change in allowances there is zero point anyone with a very low HC entering into a team
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Demonstrably false.

Arthur Wedge said:
Yes it is supposed to be fun - it was fun before they dreamt up allowances, now it’s no longer fun because its unbalanced towards high HCs
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If you only have fun when you win, I suggest taking a good long look at your attitude to your hobby.

WHS allowances are based on extensive modelling and provide everyone with a fair chance of competing for prizes.
Things like "10% combined" was actually just dreamt up, and gave teams made up of all low handicappers a ridiculous advantage.

Arthur Wedge said:
In a scramble no one should be getting 15/16 more shots than another team
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If organisers really don't want teams of higher handicappers to have a fair chance of winning anything, ToCs can easily fix that by means of maximum Playing Handicaps.

Arthur Wedge said:
It’s made it very hard for anyone low to “compete” - then it becomes a waste and people will stop bothering - hence why once popular events now have loads of gaps
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This distorted perspective of a small number of entitled and self-important low handicappers, that isn't actually supported by the facts (i.e. real world scores and results), should be given the consideration it warrants.
 
wjemather said:
Probably a fair description of the entitled low handicappers who do little else but complain about having to scoring well in order to stand a chance, having had 100 years of being able to win with average scoring.
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What’s this “100 years of winning with average scoring” stuff about

And why is someone “entitled” when they don’t feel there is a chance to compete even when scoring well


wjemather said:
Demonstrably false.
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In what way ? Certainly not false from what we have witnessed

wjemather said:
If you only have fun when you win, I suggest taking a good long look at your attitude to your hobby.
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Who said anything about “winning”

As for someone’s attitude - think you need to wind it back quite a bit
wjemather said:
WHS allowances are based on extensive modelling and provide everyone with a fair chance of competing for prizes.
Things like "10% combined" was actually just dreamt up, and gave teams made up of all low handicappers a ridiculous advantage.
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“extensive modelling” - so all made up scenarios - no real actual results from scrambles

As for the 10 and 15% - it was based on what we saw with our results in our comps , no ridiculous advantage could be seen with the results being very well spread out

But as it’s a fun format why did EG need to enforce HC allowances 🤔

Another example of them overreaching
wjemather said:
If organisers really don't want teams of higher handicappers to have a fair chance of winning anything, ToCs can easily fix that by means of maximum Playing Handicaps.
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Organisers want everyone to have a fair chance of “competing” - you appear fixated by winning 🤔
wjemather said:
This distorted perspective of a small number of entitled and self-important low handicappers, that isn't actually supported by the facts (i.e. real world scores and results), should be given the consideration it warrants.
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Again this “entitled and self important” digs being thrown

What’s these “real world scores and results” you are talking about ?

None were sent to EG and as you were saying - it’s all done on “modelling”
 
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sunshine said:
Unless they pair up with high handicappers.
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The way is percentage works with 25% of the lowest handicap they are basically going to get at best 2 shots maybe 3 even with higher handicaps

It shouldn’t need for people to manufacture teams - should be balance across all handicaps

The way they have done it is poor form what we have witnessed

There shouldn’t be anything discouraging people from playing with others of a low HC etc

There is a middle ground - allowing everyone to have a fairer chance as possible
 
I'm playing in a scramble on Sunday, me 3, 1, 22 & 22

have played in this one at an away course and have no chance of winning on past results.

Why do I play in it, the beer is cold and it is just a get together with mates.
 
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