Ball lost in boggy area

[funkycoldmedina]

This one has been bugging me for a while.

We have an area in the 1st cut on one of our holes about 8m2 that a ball just disappears into if it lands in it. It's a perfect length for my 3w and I've lost a few balls this way. There is nowhere else to lose a ball on that line as further in is a line of trees which is closely mown everywhere and then another fairway.

So even though I know it's in there do I just proceed as lost ball and reload because I haven't seen it enter?

 

[Crow]

Is it marked as a water hazard? (Or whatever the new term for water hazard is)

 

[funkycoldmedina]

It isn't. They just put a white line around it. GUR I suppose

 

[Colin L]

If you know or are virtually certain that your ball is in the GUR but you can't find it, you can take relief without penalty using the estimated place where it crossed the edge of the GUR as your reference point. See Rule 16.1e

 

[rulefan]

As they have marked it it will be an Abnormal Course Condition and relief will be available under 16.1b and

16.e. Relief for Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition
If a player’s ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that the ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may use this relief option instead of taking stroke-and-distance relief:

• The player may take relief under Rule 16.1b, c or d, using the estimated point where the ball last crossed the edge of the abnormal course condition on the course as the spot of the ball for purposes of finding the nearest point of complete relief.
• Once the player puts another ball in play to take relief in this way:
  • The original ball is no longer in play and must not be played.

Edit: Colin is a faster typist.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

As a matter of interest we have a couple of white lined areas which are designated as GUR (which they aren't as they have not been repaired). From time to time the white lines get washed away by the rain and are usually reinstated after a day or two. If your ball is in the area when the line has been washed away are you still entitled to relief? (No work has been done on the area).

 

[rulefan]

As a matter of interest we have a couple of white lined areas which are designated as GUR (which they aren't as they have not been repaired). From time to time the white lines get washed away by the rain and are usually reinstated after a day or two. If your ball is in the area when the line has been washed away are you still entitled to relief? (No work has been done on the area).

Work doesn't have to be started for it to be Ground Under Repair.

Ground Under Repair
Any part of the course the Committee defines to be ground under repair (whether by marking it or otherwise).
If the marking has been completely washed away and there is no local rule, IMO no relief. But some may not agree

 

[rosecott]

Work doesn't have to be started for it to be Ground Under Repair.

Ground Under Repair
Any part of the course the Committee defines to be ground under repair (whether by marking it or otherwise).
If the marking has been completely washed away and there is no local rule, IMO no relief. But some may not agree

I'm sure that some eagle-eyed Senior will insist that he can see very very faint traces of a white line. One of my players told me earlier this week that he knows of more than one player who takes free relief from an area of gorse/heather that had its blue stakes removed at least 4 years ago.

 

[IanMcC]

As a matter of interest we have a couple of white lined areas which are designated as GUR (which they aren't as they have not been repaired). From time to time the white lines get washed away by the rain and are usually reinstated after a day or two. If your ball is in the area when the line has been washed away are you still entitled to relief? (No work has been done on the area).

This, of course, only applies to members of the magic circle or gypsies with powers of foresight.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Thanks for your replies, it's very much appreciated. I'd thought that was the case but wasn't sure because as it's over the brow of a slope there's no visual of it landing.

 

[rulie]

Thanks for your replies, it's very much appreciated. I'd thought that was the case but wasn't sure because as it's over the brow of a slope there's no visual of it landing.

What is the nature of the area surrounding that GUR? closely-mown? rough (how deep)? etc. Could the ball be anywhere else that it might not be found?
In order to proceed under the GUR Rule in the situation that you describe (ball not found), it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the GUR. "Known" is pretty obvious - saw it go in there or find the ball in there. "Virtually certain" means 95% probability that the ball is in there (same as 19 times out of 20).

 

[backwoodsman]

Thanks for your replies, it's very much appreciated. I'd thought that was the case but wasn't sure because as it's over the brow of a slope there's no visual of it landing.

What is the nature of the area surrounding that GUR? closely-mown? rough (how deep)? etc. Could the ball be anywhere else that it might not be found?
In order to proceed under the GUR Rule in the situation that you describe (ball not found), it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the GUR. "Known" is pretty obvious - saw it go in there or find the ball in there. "Virtually certain" means 95% probability that the ball is in there (same as 19 times out of 20).

I'd think this makes a difference as 8m2 is quite a small area. If you can't see the ball land because it's over the brow of a slope, then i think you have difficulty in being 95% certain that's where the ball is (even when you take into account what the surroundings are like).

 

[salfordlad]

As a matter of interest we have a couple of white lined areas which are designated as GUR (which they aren't as they have not been repaired). From time to time the white lines get washed away by the rain and are usually reinstated after a day or two. If your ball is in the area when the line has been washed away are you still entitled to relief? (No work has been done on the area).

Yes, it is a somewhat misleading label, but GUR is simply something the Committee decides you are not required to play as lies or with interference from. "Repair" may never occur.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

What is the nature of the area surrounding that GUR? closely-mown? rough (how deep)? etc. Could the ball be anywhere else that it might not be found?
In order to proceed under the GUR Rule in the situation that you describe (ball not found), it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the GUR. "Known" is pretty obvious - saw it go in there or find the ball in there. "Virtually certain" means 95% probability that the ball is in there (same as 19 times out of 20).

The surrounding area is all closely mown grass or is moss, there is no long grass. If the ball goes to the right of it, into the tree line, it's always easily identifiable from a distance.

 

[salfordlad]

The surrounding area is all closely mown grass or is moss, there is no long grass. If the ball goes to the right of it, into the tree line, it's always easily identifiable from a distance.

I've come across course management problems like that - in the ones I've seen the problem is driven by underground springs/natural drainage lines that keep an area moist, boggy and are a problem for course maintenance equipment. The 2019 rules have helped by extending the embedded ball default to the general area, but you still need to find the ball to use that. Declaring such areas to be GUR is the main alternate management approach.