Ball deemed 'lost' situation

[mikseymono]

Hi team...me again!

So, another scenario....par 5 long dog leg left..corner around the 250 yard mark....I hit my drive first double cross into all sorts of deep doo doo in the left bushes only about 180 yards. I then play a provisional and smack this just to the corner with now a clear shot to the green. So I'm there for three off the tee, with a 8 iron to the green, for a possible par. As we walk off the tee my playing partner then makes a strident b line for my first ball, I shoo him away saying I'm not going to look for it. In my head it is highly unlikely I would find the ball to put a swing on it and would be dropping under penalty if I found it, there is no way I can get to the corner in 4 or less such is the layout and obstacles in the way. So my provisional ball is in a much better position.

So whilst I understand you can not loose a ball and had I NOT announced the 2nd ball it would be deemed in play and I could not play the first. The question is, are the other players entitled to look for my first ball even though I said I would be playing the provisional? Seems a bit odd and poor etiquette.

Thanks again!

M

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hi team...me again!

So, another scenario....par 5 long dog leg left..corner around the 250 yard mark....I hit my drive first double cross into all sorts of deep doo doo in the left bushes only about 180 yards. I then play a provisional and smack this just to the corner with now a clear shot to the green. So I'm there for three off the tee, with a 8 iron to the green, for a possible par. As we walk off the tee my playing partner then makes a strident b line for my first ball, I shoo him away saying I'm not going to look for it. In my head it is highly unlikely I would find the ball to put a swing on it and would be dropping under penalty if I found it, there is no way I can get to the corner in 4 or less such is the layout and obstacles in the way. So my provisional ball is in a much better position.

So whilst I understand you can not loose a ball and had I NOT announced the 2nd ball it would be deemed in play and I could not play the first. The question is, are the other players entitled to look for my first ball even though I said I would be playing the provisional? Seems a bit odd and poor etiquette.

Thanks again!

M

Yes. If he spots a ball that could be yours, or finds your original ball, then you have identify it, and if it is yours then you have to play it - and you can thank him appropriately.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As I understand it yes they are entitled to look for it even if you don't make an effort to. Poor form and poor etiquette if they do especially if they then find it (think you then have a responsibility to confirm it is your ball via the marking you put on and can't simply ignore the fact a ball has been found). Most times I've said to my PP's I don't fancy my chances in there let's leave it and we'll all moved on.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As I understand it yes they are entitled to look for it even if you don't make an effort to. Poor form and poor etiquette if they do especially if they then find it (think you then have a responsibility to confirm it is your ball via the marking you put on and can't simply ignore the fact a ball has been found). Most times I've said to my PP's I don't fancy my chances in there let's leave it and we'll all moved on.

I did this once - many years ago...since then I listen to what the player says and act accordingly.

 

[Imurg]

In situations like this I always ask Fragger if we're going to look for his ball or not......just in case...

 

[PhilTheFragger]

In situations like this I always ask Fragger if we're going to look for his ball or not......just in case...

And I’d always assume we are looking for Imurgs first ball on the admittedly rare occasion it goes awol ?

 

[mikseymono]

Thanks for speedy replies again....so it's poor form/etiquette then. This was what I thought originally.
The problem is that we are the two lowest handicaps in our club, we always play together, on competition days, so normally either one of us are in for a shout for the gross prize. So towards the end of our round, say the last 5 holes, it becomes almost a Matchplay scenario...knowing if you beat the other you have probably won. We both enjoy competing and always compliment each other on good shots and laugh at the bad ones. But of course this is early doors in the round and as we approach squeaky bum time things can change. This other player is very quick to point out the rules and will always be watching you when you play a shot..........almost...dare I say it...waiting for you to make a mistake so as to gain an advantage. Never really given it much thought...but when I analyse what has happened this seems to be true.
It's a bit different this year as there are no team games because of covid so it is quite a 'selfish' year and unable to help out the club in anyway....so all we have are the internal comps. I can see other situations arising as the season continues!

Guess I'll have to be much tighter on my knowledge of the rules and be a bit more assertive with this...rather than being rolled over........

M

 

[mikseymono]

If he's gonna look, he's gonna look. But nothing to stop you walking on and playing the provisional while he does that. Once you hit that shot it doesn't matter if he finds the first one or not.

Yes...I did think of doing this, but the other three balls were some ways behind mine and would be playing out of turn had I have hit mine first...for them, they wouldn't be attacking the green but laying up to where my ball is. It seems to be an odd situation but I can also see it become quite common place soon..........

 

[rulefan]

Yes...I did think of doing this, but the other three balls were some ways behind mine and would be playing out of turn had I have hit mine first...for them, they wouldn't be attacking the green but laying up to where my ball is. It seems to be an odd situation but I can also see it become quite common place soon..........

Unless it is unsafe to do so, there is no problem in playing out of turn in strokeplay.

 

[Imurg]

Of course the other way around this is, if you're confident that the 2nd ball will be in play, is to not call a provisional and just play a 2nd ball.
That becomes the ball in play regardless of someone finding the first.

 

[mikseymono]

Unless it is unsafe to do so, there is no problem in playing out of turn in strokeplay.

I was just around the dog leg ( proper 90 degrees one) and they would have to hit towards me and my ball....so if I was there it would be dangerous I guess....

 

[Swango1980]

Of course the other way around this is, if you're confident that the 2nd ball will be in play, is to not call a provisional and just play a 2nd ball.
That becomes the ball in play regardless of someone finding the first.

How can you be confident the second ball is in play before you play the second ball?

 

[Imurg]

How can you be confident the second ball is in play before you play the second ball?

Rule of Golf #40....
2nd tee shots always go down the middle......

If you've smacked it deep into the jungle and can be pretty sure you're never seeing it again then why not....?
Often you know when a ball is not going to be found or, if it is found, unplayable with little hope of escape with out several penalty drops...
Just tee up another one and go for it...nothing to lose.

 

[mikseymono]

I know what you mean.....but...quite often the 2nd ball...the provisional, goes nice and long down the middle with a baby draw. Playing my course many times I know it will be on the fairway just around the corner.

 

[doublebogey7]

Unless it is unsafe to do so, there is no problem in playing out of turn in strokeplay.

I would add, you may also play out of turn in match play, though your opponents may ask that you replay the shot. In this situation once you have hit the provisional that is the ball in play and the first ball would be lost irrespective of whether or not they ask you to replay.

 

[BubbaP]

Thanks for speedy replies again....so it's poor form/etiquette then. This was what I thought originally.
The problem is that we are the two lowest handicaps in our club, we always play together, on competition days, so normally either one of us are in for a shout for the gross prize. So towards the end of our round, say the last 5 holes, it becomes almost a Matchplay scenario...knowing if you beat the other you have probably won. We both enjoy competing and always compliment each other on good shots and laugh at the bad ones. But of course this is early doors in the round and as we approach squeaky bum time things can change. This other player is very quick to point out the rules and will always be watching you when you play a shot..........almost...dare I say it...waiting for you to make a mistake so as to gain an advantage. Never really given it much thought...but when I analyse what has happened this seems to be true.
It's a bit different this year as there are no team games because of covid so it is quite a 'selfish' year and unable to help out the club in anyway....so all we have are the internal comps. I can see other situations arising as the season continues!

Guess I'll have to be much tighter on my knowledge of the rules and be a bit more assertive with this...rather than being rolled over........

M

On that theme, I wasn't sure in the OP as you referred to your "playing partner" which implied you were in a team - you clarified later.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's not just how well your ball is sitting - it's what shot you are then likely to be able to play. So even if the best outcome is that your ball is sitting pretty - if it's very likely to be somewhere that demands a simple chip out or similar recovery shot - and maybe even then a difficult 3rd shot - consider just dinking a new ball in play down the middle. As @Imurg says - that's where they always go.

 

[mikseymono]

yes, should have clarified...my opponent.
Anyhow, I should add that we now have two new players who have joined our club. There are now 4 of us at 5.5......so that's great for the team next year.....however, this year it's all about personal gain as there are zero team matches, which is a shame......hopefully that should mix the 3 balls up a bit on a Sunday!

M

 

[jim8flog]

If he's gonna look, he's gonna look. But nothing to stop you walking on and playing the provisional while he does that. Once you hit that shot it doesn't matter if he finds the first one or not.

Unless the provisional is further away from the green than the original ball is or likely to be.

 

[Orikoru]

It's a dick move but yeah if they find your ball I guess you have to play it. I have two questions though...

1. Usually if you're looking for your own ball you have 3 minutes from the time when you start your search, right? So if you're not looking for it and someone else is do they have infinite time to find it because you haven't started searching? Or do they have 3 minutes in this situation?

2. In order to stop them finding your first ball, can you like sprint to your ball and play it as soon as possible? So once you've hit the other ball again that's now completely in play? Or could they still find your original ball after you've hit your 4th shot (2nd shot with the provisional ball)? (Edit: I think Kaz already answered this above actually, just seen it.)