Auschwitz.

[c1973]

If it is indeed there to remind us of mans inhumanity to other men it might not be a bad idea to have the Jewish state of Israel's leaders pay a visit.

It might serve to remind them that the 'fencing in', systematic theft of land and property as well as the indiscriminate killing of that states men, women and children is no different in many people's eyes (including the UN), just because it's on a different scale.

No?

 

[JustOne]

evil exists even in "civilised" countries and if not remembered will resurface at some point in the future.

In the future? Are you not up to date with what has happened since the war?

I think as it stands (a tourist attraction? - for want of a better description) it only serves to make us continue to hate the Germans.

I know it's on a different scale but they didn't just leave the rubble of ground zero where it sat, they built a memorial and rebuilt, which is/was the correct thing to do in my opinion and I feel the same way about Auschwitz.

nb: There's NO disrespect for the dead in EITHER location... so get lost Shewy.

 

[guest100718]

In the future? Are you not up to date with what has happened since the war?

I think as it stands (a tourist attraction? - for want of a better description) it only serves to make us continue to hate the Germans.

I know it's on a different scale but they didn't just leave the rubble of ground zero where it sat, they built a memorial and rebuilt, which is/was the correct thing to do in my opinion and I feel the same way about Auschwitz.

nb: There's NO disrespect for the dead in EITHER location... so get lost Shewy.

It stands as a memorial to the 6 million Jews who were killed by the Nazis.
I guess it eventually will become some kind of tourist attraction as it passes further into history.

 

[woody69]

I have no issue with it in terms of remembering the dead, as per my first post my personal opinion is that they should put up a memorial and then knock the place down.... would the dead still want a concentration camp to exist 70yrs on and not some charity housing for the homeless? I think they'd have wanted that place bombed to dust!!...

You do realise the camp itself is the memorial right? Where over a million people were murdered and is kept to serve as a reminder that humans are capable of truly horrific and terrible things and we should be reminded every day, to never let it happen ever again?

 

[Snelly]

There's NO disrespect for the dead in EITHER location.

You've never been to visit one of the camps in question have you?

 

[Crazyface]

The camp should be left as a permenant memorial to the horrors that happened there. Don't forget there was a movement not long ago trying to say it never happened. It is not there to rub the noses of the German people in it, it is there as a reminder to humankind of the horrors that it can do if we do not keep an ever vigilant watch on things.

 

[chellie]

Did you look at the pictures I posted. Could you survive that? How did anyone?

How anyone can say that it needs knocking down beggars belief.

 

[pokerjoke]

Never been there or would ever want too I don't believe I would handle it well.
1.5 million innocent children killed just gets me right in the heart.
Watching the people tell their stories yesterday after all these years and seeing how
much it still hurts,god knows what sort of ordeal they went through.

 

[Tarkus1212]

I have been to Auschwitz, probably the most moving experience of my life. You have to go to see it in order to comprehend the sheer scale of the atrocity. It is definitely NOT a tourist attraction. Going there showed me the reality of the Holocaust in a way that no TV program or film could ever convey. It will live with me for ever.

JustOne, of course you are entitled to your opinion but I would seriously encourage you to go there (you can visit as part of a trip to the wonderful city of Krakow) and then see if your opinion is unchanged. I doubt it would be.

 

[USER1999]

I have been to Dachau. It was pretty grim. I have no desire to see any more camps. One was enough. They should be left exactly as they are, as memorials to remind us what supposedly civilised westerners can do when left unchecked.

 

[Rumpokid]

Pesonally, i think it should stay as a physical reminder of what took place there.It is a part of history that should not be bulldozed, for housing as someone suggested.A lot can be learnt for future generations, by keeping it as a permanent reminder.
By the way, anyone been to this place Oradour-sur-Glanen?

 

[Marty420]

Never been to Auschwitz, but did go to Buchenwald last summer whilst road tripping around Germany. Possibly the darkest, most harrowing place i've ever been to. The camps should be left as a reminder for future genrations of how cruel humans can be.

 

[palindromicbob]

You do realise the camp itself is the memorial right? Where over a million people were murdered and is kept to serve as a reminder that humans are capable of truly horrific and terrible things and we should be reminded every day, to never let it happen ever again?

Worst thing is we have let it happen again and again and again. Maybe not quiet on the scale of Auschwistz but genocide continues.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In the future? Are you not up to date with what has happened since the war?

I think as it stands (a tourist attraction? - for want of a better description) it only serves to make us continue to hate the Germans.

I know it's on a different scale but they didn't just leave the rubble of ground zero where it sat, they built a memorial and rebuilt, which is/was the correct thing to do in my opinion and I feel the same way about Auschwitz.

nb: There's NO disrespect for the dead in EITHER location... so get lost Shewy.

You do realise you are the only one using the word hate and bringing asylum seekers in to this, we don't hate the Germans of today, they are a different people, that was the far right, and when you mention asylum seekers I do wonder were your political allegiances are pointed.
Auschwitz is in Poland and the Poles were massacred by the Germans so I am sure they have every right not to forget.

 

[JustOne]

You do realise you are the only one using the word hate and bringing asylum seekers in to this, we don't hate the Germans of today, they are a different people, that was the far right, and when you mention asylum seekers I do wonder were your political allegiances are pointed.
Auschwitz is in Poland and the Poles were massacred by the Germans so I am sure they have every right not to forget.

The asylum seekers were just an example.


Quote from a local resident..

Auschwitz has created some jobs in Oswiecim – nearly all of the camp’s 250 guides live there – but tourists hardly ever stop in the town.

“We don’t exist. And when people see us, even those of us who were not born at the time, they are always thinking: “How could they have let it happen?” complains resident Margareta Szeroka.

The argument of "the camps should be left as a reminder for future genrations of how cruel humans can be" is so definitely the most shallow argument of all,... it ain't doing anything by being there for that reason...

The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of Tutsi and moderate Hutu in Rwanda by members of the Hutu majority. During the approximate 100-day period from April 7, 1994, to mid-July, an estimated 500,000–1,000,000 Rwandans were killed,[1] constituting as much as 20% of the country's total population and 70% of the Tutsi then living in Rwanda

The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, Ta Mok and other leaders, organized the mass killing of ideologically suspect groups. The total number of victims is estimated at approximately 1.7 million Cambodians between 1975–1979, including deaths from slave labour......

actually here's a list take your pick....
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

 

[Liverbirdie]

I'm a fool for having my own opinion? Don't be a knob and start calling people names

The English are hung up on war films, war stories, war memories, we won the war - we can stop talking about it now. I wonder what the Germans do... should we just keep rubbing it in their faces for ever and ever? We could gloat about how we used to control slaves if you want, or how our empire used to be so massive we controlled 2/3 of the worlds surface.

I'd be happy not to hear about the war ever again, that's not to say that people shouldn't be educated on such subjects and morally obliged to respect the sacrifices made in the name of freedom and democracy (which I most certainly do).

QUOTE]

Firstly, you may find its the British and not the English, for a start. Very Anglo-centric of you.:thup:

Secondly, it was Russia that contributed more than all the others put together for ridding us of the Nazis. Don't listen to the Whig-view of history, maybe find out a bit more of what happened outside of the films in the first place, try a bit of decent education yourself.

I was brought up in the 70/80's when war films (including wars about Sudan, South Africa, Napoleonic times, 100 years war and many others were shown) and it was only understandable seeing as many survivors of WWII were still alive. A nation (or British empire) is obviously interested in its history, and its part of the national fabric.

There is a slavery museum in Liverpool, as a scouser I don't go in there thinking it was my fault, or my predecessors, but it was a tragic time in human history.

And the main point is that its not there to punish or remind the German people (even though it's in Poland), but to commemorate possibly the biggest single tragedy of human history.

It was what HUMANS did to HUMANS , and not what Germans did to Jews (gypsies, mentally and physically handicapped people and others) BTW, that is the main relevance, and for not realising that I suggest that you are foolish. And to bring immigrants into it after talking about that subject, makes your argument go full circle.

Maybe crass, ignorant and an ability to know little about geography and history, might have been better used, than just saying your a fool.:thup:

 

[Hobbit]

The argument of "the camps should be left as a reminder for future genrations of how cruel humans can be" is so definitely the most shallow argument of all,... it ain't doing anything by being there for that reason...

I would be inclined to support any argument, shallow or otherwise, that helps people remember what went on. Memory(history) is what goes a long way to stopping people making the same mistake twice. Some people will understand the enormity of it all, whereas some will need a tangible reminder the size of a camp.

 

[Foxholer]

Lets actually call it by its proper description - extermination camps!

Concentration (on a national basis, rather than just internment of combatants) camps were introduced by the British (not just the English) in the Boer war.

Russia, under Stalin had Gulags - forced labour camps - from 1930 until well into the 80s for 'out of favour' groups, including the same groups targeted by Hitler. Very few who were sent there returned! This spanned the war period, during which time Russia was an ally!

And let's not forget the Japanese wartime forced labour camps either!

There should certainly be some 'memorial' to those who suffered the atrocities, even just to help prevent similar ones in the future - though it seems that's quite difficult! I don't believe there can be a better memorial than the shell of at least some of those camps!

 

[woody69]

The argument of "the camps should be left as a reminder for future genrations of how cruel humans can be" is so definitely the most shallow argument of all,... it ain't doing anything by being there for that reason...

The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of Tutsi and moderate Hutu in Rwanda by members of the Hutu majority. During the approximate 100-day period from April 7, 1994, to mid-July, an estimated 500,000–1,000,000 Rwandans were killed,[1] constituting as much as 20% of the country's total population and 70% of the Tutsi then living in Rwanda

The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, Ta Mok and other leaders, organized the mass killing of ideologically suspect groups. The total number of victims is estimated at approximately 1.7 million Cambodians between 1975–1979, including deaths from slave labour......

actually here's a list take your pick....
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

How on earth is it a "shallow" argument as you put it? All of the atrocities you have mentioned carry their own memorials to the horrific acts that went on. The wreckage of the plane in Rwanda that started the genocide or Murambi School that is now a memorial site, the prison in Cambodia (S-21) where people were sent to be killed and tortured. They aren't being torn down or tidied away so we can forget about them. The preservation of these sites are very important. It isn't something that should just be brushed under the carpet to be forgotten or redeveloped because they are a stain on our past. Every nation that has been involved in such terrible acts needs to be reminded in an effort to at least question it ever happening again in those countries.

 

[JustOne]

How on earth is it a "shallow" argument as you put it?

Having received a warning for my (personal) opinion on this thread I can't answer that for you.