Arsene Wenger

[jp5]

At the start of the season the club has targets, one of them being CL qualification. Objective met = success, albeit partial success as the other targets are all missed. Not mega success but certainly some success.

So Arsenal should sack a manager that has been very successful in the first 9 years, but only moderately successful in the past 9 years?

If it were you, would you seriously sack a (somewhat) successful manager and replace him with someone else knowing full well that it could go very wrong. You agreed , Klopp could be a failure. Its bad enough having to swap a good manager when you need to (look at Man United) why would you do that by choice?

No no no no!

Champions League qualification should be a byproduct of an attempt at winning the league. There is nothing successful about qualifying for a competition that Arsenal have no chance of winning. The board may see it as success (for financial reasons), as you may do for some strange reason, but the majority of Arsenal fans don't.

I believe that whoever comes in after Wenger may struggle. Purely because Wenger has construed a team of small, technical yet indirect players, with many of them on over inflated wages. But for the long time health of the club the sooner a new manager comes in (and dispels this myth that finishing 4th is an achievement).

 

[sawtooth]

Yes I would replace Wenger with Klopp - I do think Wengers time is up at Arsenal and things need to change

Wenger hasn't been able to move the team forward enough in the last 8/9 seasons.

Time for a change i believe

Being a Liverpool fan I'm actually happy they keep him because I believe he won't change and Arsenal will continue too fall short.

If you're happy with just top 4 every season then you're happy with Wenger - if you want more - then a change is needed.

If you were accountable for your decision ( like the chairman of Arsenal) I don't think you would really sack Wenger for Klopp right now it wouldn't make sense. The risk is huge and there is nowhere near enough justification IMO.

Yes of course I want Wenger to have more success like in the earlier years but I still think he is the man for the job. Time will tell.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you were accountable for your decision ( like the chairman of Arsenal) I don't think you would really sack Wenger for Klopp right now it wouldn't make sense. The risk is huge and there is nowhere near enough justification IMO.

Yes of course I want Wenger to have more success like in the earlier years but I still think he is the man for the job. Time will tell.

Time will tell ?! It's been 9 years now ! How much more time do you need to tell you that it always a case of falling short

In that period Klopp has taken Dortmund to three Bundasliga titles , CL final and into the quarters ( so far of the best CL ) - using half the money Wenger has.

If you really think it doesn't make sense to bring in a manager who has a track record of success in recent years and there is no justification you will never see anyone being able to replace Wenger.

And you will continue to fall short.

I would replace Wenger with Klopp in the summer regardless of what happens in the FA Cup

 

[sawtooth]

No no no no!

There is nothing successful about qualifying for a competition that Arsenal have no chance of winning. .

Its all relative I suppose. Ask Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or other large clubs if the CL qualification is a measure of success. Besides £55M tells me you are wrong and I happen to enjoy my Wednesday night watching Arsenal compete with some of the best clubs in Europe. We haven't won it but its still great being there.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Its all relative I suppose. Ask Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or other large clubs if the CL qualification is a measure of success. Besides £55M tells me you are wrong and I happen to enjoy my Wednesday night watching Arsenal compete with some of the best clubs in Europe. We haven't won it but its still great being there.

Spurs , Everton etc don't charge thousands for a season ticket and hundreds for one ticket in the CL

Do you not want more than just being a part of it ?! Don't you actually want to challenge for the trophy ?

 

[cookelad]

Its all relative I suppose. Ask Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or other large clubs if the CL qualification is a measure of success. Besides £55M tells me you are wrong and I happen to enjoy my Wednesday night watching Arsenal compete with some of the best clubs in Europe. We haven't won it but its still great being there.

Go back to the FA cup final 2005 and imagine you were told that's the last trophy Arsenal would win for 9 or more (I'll say it before someone else does) years but it's ok they'll qualify for the Champions League every year, sometimes without threatening the top spot would you have been happy with that news?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Go back to the FA cup final 2005 and imagine you were told that's the last trophy Arsenal would win for 9 or more (I'll say it before someone else does) years but it's ok they'll qualify for the Champions League every year, sometimes without threatening the top spot would you have been happy with that news?

As a Chelsea fan - absolutely!!!

Now can someone please tell me the same about Man Utd and the Premiership last year? And more importantly, Man City and the League Cup this year?!!!

 

[MadAdey]

Its all relative I suppose. Ask Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or other large clubs if the CL qualification is a measure of success.

Using those clubs is not a good example. To a club that can't get CL qualification of course it would be great seasons work if they did. But for a team that is always in there to just say that there aim for the season is to keep hold of it is too negative for me.

What is the plan at Arsenal for the next few years. I know Rodgers has set out a long term Business plan at Liverpool. That involves eventually getting in there challenging for the Premier League and the CL in the next 5 years. Ambitious, maybe, but you have to a target to aim for or you will just stagnate and accept that fighting for 4th place every year is what a successful season is.

 

[sawtooth]

To a club that can't get CL qualification of course it would be great seasons work.
.

But why cant they? Qualification is easy right? Not much of an achievement? Not success?

....or perhaps it isn't that easy and it does deserve recognition?.:mmm:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But why cant they? Qualification is easy right? Not much of an achievement? Not success?

....or perhaps it isn't that easy and it does deserve recognition?.:mmm:

Is that the limit of your clubs ambition though ? Surely you want more , 9 years so far with nothing more

 

[jp5]

Its all relative I suppose. Ask Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or other large clubs if the CL qualification is a measure of success. Besides £55M tells me you are wrong and I happen to enjoy my Wednesday night watching Arsenal compete with some of the best clubs in Europe. We haven't won it but its still great being there.

You're comparing clubs of different statures! Arsenal are clearly a bigger club in terms of honours, revenues, supporter base, whatever you want to look at. Of course CL qualification would be great for those teams, but not so much for Arsenal.

It looks like you've succumb to the propaganda fed out by the board to keep the fans happy whilst the club has morphed into a profit making business.

 

[MadAdey]

Is that the limit of your clubs ambition though ? Surely you want more , 9 years so far with nothing more

That is the bit that I do not understand. You go from either winning or coming runner-up in the league and getting to the CL final to a team that is happy to fight it out with Spurs and Everton for 4th place. If that is the ambition level at Arsenal and what the fans expect then Wenger will stay in his job because he is delivering exactly what everyone wants.

The Premier League is probably the toughest of all the big leagues in Europe to get a CL spot in, no where else has this many teams that can get into the top 4 every year. So it is not a failed season to finish in 4th and only qualify for the CL, but for that to be the ambition for the season is hard to believe. I bet Wenger does not sit there in August aiming to finish 4th, even though he normally is by March.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Ok Arsenal have under achieved of late in the hunt for silverware,but Spurs,Liverpool,Everton,Newcastle.... Haven't exactly been filling up their trophy cabinets either.At least Arsenal have been consistent in finishing in a respectable league position.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We have massively under achieved as have the other clubs

But Newcastle , Everton and Spurs aren't comparable to Arsenal

We are though

 

[sawtooth]

You're comparing clubs of different statures! Arsenal are clearly a bigger club in terms of honours, revenues, supporter base, whatever you want to look at. Of course CL qualification would be great for those teams, but not so much for Arsenal.

It looks like you've succumb to the propaganda fed out by the board to keep the fans happy whilst the club has morphed into a profit making business.

Yes but Wenger is partly responsible for making Arsenal a bigger club, adding honours, increasing revenues (huge contribution). So for that he deserves enormous credit. And Arsenal has not only morphed into a very profitable business but it has undergone a huge makeover in terms of the new stadium (x2 capacity) and training ground and at the same time qualifying for CL year on year. Again enormous credit to Wenger.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes but Wenger is partly responsible for making Arsenal a bigger club, adding honours, increasing revenues (huge contribution). So for that he deserves enormous credit. And Arsenal has not only morphed into a very profitable business but it has undergone a huge makeover in terms of the new stadium (x2 capacity) and training ground and at the same time qualifying for CL year on year. Again enormous credit to Wenger.

Yep he does deserve credit for what he achieved - no one has ever denied that

Yep it's a better business now and getting lots of profits from fans paying massive prices

Is that what Arsenal fans want - profitable business

What about success in terms of trophies and actually looking like winning big trophies ( or any trophy )

What is your ambition for Arsenal ? Top 4 or more

 

[sawtooth]

But Newcastle , Everton and Spurs aren't comparable to Arsenal

That is quite possibly the best complement you could ever pay Wenger.

How would you compare those clubs to Arsenal back in 1996, before Wenger took over?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That is quite possibly the best complement you could ever pay Wenger.

How would you compare those clubs to Arsenal back in 1996, before Wenger took over?

Well before that they still weren't comparable to Arsenal.

Arsenal were challenging for titles and trophies - those clubs were challenging to stay in the league at times.

Arsenal were still a big club before Wenger took over

 

[Pin-seeker]

Spurs spent £100m before the season,surely that should be enough to challenge. Liverpool final league position for past few seasons 7,8,6,7,2 & will probably finish this season without silverware. Don't get too carried away yeah :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Spurs spent £100m before the season,surely that should be enough to challenge. Liverpool final league position for past few seasons 7,8,6,7,2 & will probably finish this season without silverware. Don't get too carried away yeah :thup:

Carried away with what exactly

And what does that have to do with the comparable size ( finances, success etc ) of football clubs

Arsenal along with Liverpool , UTD , City and Chelsea are the biggest clubs in the country and amongst the biggest in Europe

Spurs, Everton and Newcastle aren't