Are dedicated tee times illegal

hovis

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I was speaking to a solicitor today whilst attending a course at work. We got on to the subject of golf and I explained that I am restricted to when I can play as I have to make way for dedicated tee times for seniors and women. She said that was illegal and they can't do that. I simply answered "if it was illegal it wouldn't be able to happen and it would have been challenged by now"

She seems pretty sure. Any views or experience please
 
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What makes it “illegal” ?

Equality rules i believe the club has to make sure every member has the same ability to be able to access the course

The tee is allowed to be booked by specific membership groups
 

hovis

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What makes it “illegal” ?

Equality rules i believe the club has to make sure every member has the same ability to be able to access the course

The tee is allowed to be booked by specific membership groups
She was saying something along the lines of a senior golfer paying the same membership is able to play more golf than me and has more opportunities to access the course.
That is discrimination (according to her)
 

Oddsocks

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I’m assuming under equality other areas have to be open is what the solicitor is hinting at.

I’m sure a club would have covered their back in their t&c’s to state tees may be block booked etc etc.
 

hovis

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I’m assuming under equality other areas have to be open is what the solicitor is hinting at.

I’m sure a club would have covered their back in their t&c’s to state tees may be block booked etc etc.
I said this to her. I explained this happens at most clubs throughout the country. If it was as black and white as she said it would have been stopped years ago
 

Foxholer

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I was speaking to a solicitor today whilst attending a course at work. We got on to the subject of golf and I explained that I am restricted to when I can play as I have to make way for dedicated tee times for seniors and women. She said that was illegal and they can't do that. I simply answered "if it was illegal it wouldn't be able to happen and it would have been challenged by now"

She seems pretty sure. Any views or experience please
Perhaps challengeable but easily overcome by a contra commitment - commitment by those involved in their dedicated tee times to NOT play in an equivalent sized slot at some other time, like the afternoon of their dedicated one!
 

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It isnt illegal as long as there is a case for the segregation and similar alternatives apply to other groups. This is widespread in sport, where the sports themselves are naturally arranged by age groups and sex. As long as opportunities are provided to all, and there is a case to justify the restrictions, the segregation of those opportunities is not an issue.
 
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She was saying something along the lines of a senior golfer paying the same membership is able to play more golf than me and has more opportunities to access the course.
That is discrimination (according to her)

It is something that has been challenged by people but been dismissed as not discriminatory
 

hovis

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It isnt illegal as long as there is a case for the segregation and similar alternatives apply to other groups. This is widespread in sport, where the sports themselves are naturally arranged by age groups and sex. As long as opportunities are provided to all, and there is a case to justify the restrictions, the segregation of those opportunities is not an issue.
But is it fair that a senior can play at any time he wishes on a Monday for example but woman and men can only play mobdays after 12? They get 5 hours more golf availability than me
 

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But is it fair that a senior can play at any time he wishes on a Monday for example but woman and men can only play mobdays after 12? They get 5 hours more golf availability than me
Yes. In a members club, this will be a protocol decided by the same members, and will not have been plucked out of the air to discriminate against someone, but to facilitate the playing of the sport by different groupings whether due to age, skill, sex, or whatever due to the nature of the sport and its participating members.
 

Oddsocks

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But is it fair that a senior can play at any time he wishes on a Monday for example but woman and men can only play mobdays after 12? They get 5 hours more golf availability than me

The club could argue that most seniors do not have the fitness levels to play as much as you and that they also segregate them so that it’s a steady block for pace of play.
 

hovis

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Yes. In a members club, this will be a protocol decided by the same members, and will not have been plucked out of the air to discriminate against someone, but to facilitate the playing of the sport by different groupings whether due to age, skill, sex, or whatever due to the nature of the sport and its participating members.
But shouldn't that be given back. So for example seniors have a dedicated tee time on Monday but then can't play on Monday outside these hours to allow the rest to get a chance?
 

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But shouldn't that be given back. So for example seniors have a dedicated tee time on Monday but then can't play on Monday outside these hours to allow the rest to get a chance?
That then would be discrimination. Their allotted window is likely on the basis that they cannot play at times when others are playing - maybe speed of play, or the tees they are playing, or to facilitate some competition among them. They likely avoid weekend medals or whatever, when while not prohibited from playing, in practice is golf that doesnt suit them. So they are facilitated with the exclusive alternative slot. You should not look at it as a simple balance of time or quid pro quo. It is about a facilitating balance for all members. Ladies generally have their competition windows as well. And juniors. Or the course resevered for county competitions. That this example is on age grounds, is not in itself discrimination. You wouldnt claim you should play on a football pitch at the same time as the under tens. The contrast is more obvious and you woulndt question it, but the legal principal is the same.
 

jim8flog

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I do not see it our club. The only times that play is restricted to certain categories of player is when there is a competition and the restriction is within the terms of the competition.
Similar terms apply to ladies comps as they do to seniors and men's comps.

The ladies have the same restriction a Tuesday ie a ladies only comp as do the male seniors every other Monday and the ladies get every Tuesday not every other Tuesday.
 

doublebogey7

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But is it fair that a senior can play at any time he wishes on a Monday for example but woman and men can only play mobdays after 12? They get 5 hours more golf availability than me
If you asking is it fair under the law then the only way of answering the question is by someone testing it in court. Personally, if that is the situation at this time of year, I feel that it is unfair as it basically means non-seniors members are excluded from playing 18 holes of golf on a Monday at that club. They may also be breaking trade legislation if your membership is advertised as 7 days but essentially you cannot make use of it for all 7 days during the winter months.
 
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