Apple v FBI

[ColchesterFC]

Because that's not what the FBI want.. They want backdoor access to every iPhone on the market, and they're using a terrorist atrocity to try and get it..

It was the perfect opportunity for Apple to call the FBIs bluff. The FBI said it was only about access to this one phone so Apple could've taken the phone, unlocked it following the method laid out by McAfee and then handed it back. Apple are seen to be helping and the FBI get what they claimed to want.

 

[bluewolf]

It was the perfect opportunity for Apple to call the FBIs bluff. The FBI said it was only about access to this one phone so Apple could've taken the phone, unlocked it following the method laid out by McAfee and then handed it back. Apple are seen to be helping and the FBI get what they claimed to want.

Agreed.. And I'm far from an expert in this field (although there appears to be several thousand Apple devices in my house now with the Wife and kids all having them, as well as myself), but this would suggest that there is a lot going on in the background that we aren't aware of...

 

[Hacker Khan]

Why don't the FBI give the phone to Apple, who can download all info onto a floppy disk then give phone and floppy disk back to the FBI.

How about they stick it on a Sinclair Spectrum 16K Ram pack.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It was the perfect opportunity for Apple to call the FBIs bluff. The FBI said it was only about access to this one phone so Apple could've taken the phone, unlocked it following the method laid out by McAfee and then handed it back. Apple are seen to be helping and the FBI get what they claimed to want.

It may be more the fact that Apple are not comfortable with the perception of them hacking into their customer's phones. Yes I know this can be seen as a one off and it is a very extreme circumstance. But it will set a precedent.

I know a lot of companies have moved to iPhones as they are more secure, for the very fact that they are encrypted. My wife works for Rolls Royce and they have just done this as they are constantly under attack from over seas hackers wanting to get their hands on their data, as did my company. And by Apple showing they are willing to break this may be a commercial risk they are not willing to take. As they are not the biggest company in the world by a long way for nothing.

 

[ColchesterFC]

It may be more the fact that Apple are not comfortable with the perception of them hacking into their customer's phones. Yes I know this can be seen as a one off and it is a very extreme circumstance. But it will set a precedent.

I don't see why it should set a precedent. It's not hacking into a customer's phone. It's hacking into the phone of a dead terrorist.

My opinion is that anyone that supports Apple on this should be ashamed of themselves. And if that phone does have information on it that could have prevented the attack in Brussels and they could have unlocked it without compromising their iOS like McAfee has suggested then Apple have blood on their hands. As do the FBI if they could have unlocked it themselves using the same method.

 

[davidy233]

I don't see why it should set a precedent. It's not hacking into a customer's phone. It's hacking into the phone of a dead terrorist.

My opinion is that anyone that supports Apple on this should be ashamed of themselves. And if that phone does have information on it that could have prevented the attack in Brussels and they could have unlocked it without compromising their iOS like McAfee has suggested then Apple have blood on their hands. As do the FBI if they could have unlocked it themselves using the same method.

Utter nonsense

 

[Tashyboy]

How about they stick it on a Sinclair Spectrum 16K Ram pack.

A what 😳 Nah I like floppy things.

 

[Tashyboy]

Because that's not what the FBI want.. They want backdoor access to every iPhone on the market, and they're using a terrorist atrocity to try and get it..

If that is the case then both party's are playing games with our security.

 

[Region3]

Blimey, you do realise you have completely changed your point of view on this when you've read both sides of the story.

Look I'm sorry but that kind of open minded fair behaviour is not allowed on this board as forum rules say you must stick doggedly to any blinkered point of view no matter what the evidence against it is. Shame on you sir, shame....

I feel ashamed and dirty. Just goes to show though, things aren't always as simple as they may first appear to be.

If it really is as simple as McAfee says it is to get the info from one phone, and the FBI haven't already done it, they need to give their heads a wobble.


A question for the more tech savvy amongst us... As I understand it the issue is getting into the phone which would obviously decrypt all the info on it to display it to the user.
If the phone was physically opened as McAfee suggests and all the encrypted info copied onto something they could read, is the encryption easy to break or would they need help with that as well?

 

[guest100718]

What if it turns out that there was information on this phone that could have prevented the attack in Brussels today. Will people still be saying that Apple were correct not to help the FBI access the phone?

What if it turns out the terrorists could easily hack your phone, use its gps to pin point where you are and plant a bomb that kills you and many others because you were happy to have a device with weakened security?

 

[Jimaroid]

If the phone was physically opened as McAfee suggests and all the encrypted info copied onto something they could read, is the encryption easy to break or would they need help with that as well?

Lots of ifs and unknowns but as a rough answer is it takes a very very long time to brute force decrypt (which is sequentially trying every possible combination of key)

"AES permits the use of 256-bit keys. Breaking a symmetric 256-bit key by brute force requires 2[SUP]128[/SUP] times more computational power than a 128-bit key. 50 supercomputers that could check a billion billion (10[SUP]18[/SUP]) AES keys per second (if such a device could ever be made) would, in theory, require about 3×10[SUP]51[/SUP] years to exhaust the 256-bit key space."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack

By the way, McAffee is a lunatic. He knew what he was talking about in 1995 but this is 20 years later and a long time after he sold the McAffee company and he took his $100m fortune to live in a jungle in Belize consuming every illicit drug he could get his hands on.

He's kind of right, but he's also insane.

 

[guest100718]

Lots of ifs and unknowns but as a rough answer is it takes a very very long time to brute force decrypt (which is sequentially trying every possible combination of key)

"AES permits the use of 256-bit keys. Breaking a symmetric 256-bit key by brute force requires 2[SUP]128[/SUP] times more computational power than a 128-bit key. 50 supercomputers that could check a billion billion (10[SUP]18[/SUP]) AES keys per second (if such a device could ever be made) would, in theory, require about 3×10[SUP]51[/SUP] years to exhaust the 256-bit key space."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack

By the way, McAffee is a lunatic. He knew what he was talking about in 1995 but this is 20 years later and a long time after he sold the McAffee company and he took his $100m fortune to live in a jungle in Belize consuming every illicit drug he could get his hands on.

He's kind of right, but he's also insane.

Yep, which is why the FBI want to disable the max pin attempts, as it won't take to long to figure out a numerical Pin

 

[Region3]

Lots of ifs and unknowns but as a rough answer is it takes a very very long time to brute force decrypt (which is sequentially trying every possible combination of key)

"AES permits the use of 256-bit keys. Breaking a symmetric 256-bit key by brute force requires 2[SUP]128[/SUP] times more computational power than a 128-bit key. 50 supercomputers that could check a billion billion (10[SUP]18[/SUP]) AES keys per second (if such a device could ever be made) would, in theory, require about 3×10[SUP]51[/SUP] years to exhaust the 256-bit key space."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack

So even if they copy the data - a la McAfee - if the data is encrypted they still have a tough job to read it?

In which case it's not just Apple they need help from, if the info is encrypted by a third party developer?

 

[Jacko_G]

Your argument only holds up if the backdoor that the FBI are asking for was the only way to break into an iPhone. It isn't. John McAfee has told the FBI exactly what they need to do to crack it, and even offered to do it for them. They're just being lazy and want this crack so that they can hack any phone they get their hands on. That is incredibly dangerous. If hackers managed to gain access to the crack, which would only be a matter of time as the FBI has been hacked countless times, then god only knows what could happen as a result. The details and private information including banking information of hundreds of millions of people would be in jeopardy.

Your deluded if you think that's not already the case!

 

[Ethan]

Your deluded if you think that's not already the case!

The FBI have hacked this iPhone long ago. They are just looking for cover from Apple because so many Americans are paranoid about Feds snooping. Apple are wisely refusing to be the scapegoat and to tank their most valuable product.

 

[Jacko_G]

It goes on the world over. Not just America, phones are monitored and intercepted. Cell site triangulation used to determine location etc.

These things are all common practice and probably only the tip of the iceberg.

Police Scotland are under investigation at present for doing this. If people want to intercept and read my text messages arranging my golf or telling the wife I love her then so be it, I've nothing to hide.

 

[drdel]

In order to 'suffer' from this method/backdoor the 'hacker' would need physical possession of your phone. All this waffle about access to bank accounts etc. is wide of the mark.

The chances of your phone being lost/found/stolen by someone with access to this particular 'backdoor' is pretty remote.

but hey why let logic get in the way of scaremongering.

 

[Jimaroid]

In which case it's not just Apple they need help from, if the info is encrypted by a third party developer?

Maybe, yes, if what's inside is also encrypted.

 

[ColchesterFC]

What if it turns out the terrorists could easily hack your phone, use its gps to pin point where you are and plant a bomb that kills you and many others because you were happy to have a device with weakened security?

Why would a terrorist want to hack my phone to then target me with an explosion when they are having a great deal of success with their current tactics which are to attack seemingly random targets which makes them harder to predict and prevent?

 

[Foxholer]

Your deluded if you think that's not already the case!

But not because of a failure in Apple's security!