Anomaly in the time space continuum...........

MadAdey

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This is a weird one and it has left me confused as I can't really find anything online about it. Is it normal to have a smash factor above 1.5? It says online that 1.45 is good and 1.5 is above average, but going over 1.5 is crazy.

I had a driver fitting on Sunday and it ended up really good. Did the usual of messing around with a few different heads and shaft options and ended up trying to be fit into a STEALTH 2. I did prefer the feel of the VENTUS red shaft, but with a clubhead dialed down to 7.5* that I did not like, but was at around 1.4 on the smash factor, that isn't terrible but certainly some room for improvement. I was getting around 245 carries, 260 total, which isn't bad for someone who is 47 with a messed up shoulder and neck and back injury picked up in a car crash, that is swinging at around 103MPH clubhead.

Fitter then had an idea, he got the TSR3 with the TENSEI blue 55 stiff shaft in the 9* head, just to satisfy his curiosity on something. Well I gave that swing, hit it straight down the line, 261 carry, 279 total with a smash factor of 1.52 I looked at the fitter he looked at me and said hit another one. basically the same again and third one too. We are now confused by how I was going over 1.5 on smash factor and those distances do not align up to the expected distance for that clubhead speed, the ball was going a good 10-15 yards further than expected.

Wondering if the trackman was out of calibration, we went to the fitter in the next bay and hit it again, basicaly the same results, now I have 2 fitters looking confused. He then said try turning up the heat and letting rip with it. I got my clubhead up to 109MPH and now got a 289 carry rolling out to 311. Those numbers are what you expect from swing speeds in excess of 115MPH, not sub 110MPH.

Well as you can guess I have ordered it and when I go to pick it up I am going to hit it again as I love the club and it was as straight as I have ever hit a driver.
 
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Wabinez

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different launch monitors will measure slightly different too.

Trackman may read higher as it tracks the clubhead, and the toe might be slightly closed, and so travelling faster than than the centre of the clubhead (if that makes sense).
 

MadAdey

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different launch monitors will measure slightly different too.

Trackman may read higher as it tracks the clubhead, and the toe might be slightly closed, and so travelling faster than than the centre of the clubhead (if that makes sense).

They use Trackman, that is what me and the fitter was thinking about some kind of anomaly in the readings. But I was getting a very nice gentle fade and the trackman showed that the face was slightly open to swing path at impact. That is why we went onto the fitting bay next to us to see if the results where the same.
 

PJ87

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I had a lesson with a smash factor of 1.54 , but my distance is terrible, he explained it was the perfect results for the speed I was swinging on that one

It is possible to go above but in reality it's all relative, I'd get better with a much lower smash factor but with increased speed
 

MadAdey

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I spent all night worrying about my smash factor. My club doesn't have a column for it on the scorecard!😉

I am not worried about it, just curious as I have never seen any of the YOUTUBERS going above 1.5. I wanted to make sure that I was not buying a driver due to an anomaly on Trackman and when I get on the course it doesn't perform the same.
 

MadAdey

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I had a lesson with a smash factor of 1.54 , but my distance is terrible, he explained it was the perfect results for the speed I was swinging on that one

It is possible to go above but in reality it's all relative, I'd get better with a much lower smash factor but with increased speed

At least you are optimizing the swing speed you have. 90MPH at 1.5 is 135MPH ball speed. Better than 100MPH at 1.3 getting 130MPH ball speed.
 

pokerjoke

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Just out of interest
If someone has a swing speed of 100mph
Forgetting all the scenarios
Hits a good drive
What should the optimum carry distance be?
Hope you’re well buddy
Only 47,thought you were older
 

Backache

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My understanding and I may be wrong because it is from casual reading is that basically you cannot manufacture clubs with a smash factor of over 1.5 as they are non conforming.
However not all launch monitors measure the same thing and as different parts of the club move at slightly different speeds you can come up with smash factors slightly over 1.5 as they are measuring a slower moving part of the club head. And not all club manufacturers have identical manufacturing tolerances for all clubs so some can be a little 'hotter' than those submitted for measurement.
 

sweaty sock

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I hope this isnt true or your fitters need a training course

Trackman obviously cant read everything perfectly, so it can miss clubhead speed by plus or minus 1.5 mph, throw in that for a 100 mph swing the toe could be travelling as fast as 106mph, the smash factor is subject to a number of tolerance and strike variables.

If the trackman was reading perfectly, and your strike was dead centre, well that would be terrible news as the fitting head would be non conforming, and the head that arrives for you would perform significanlty worse....
 
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MadAdey

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I hope this isnt true or your fitters need a training course

Trackman obviously cant read everything perfectly, so it can miss clubhead speed by plus or minus 1.5 mph, throw in tgat for a 100 mph swing the toe could be travelling as fast as 106mph, the smash factor is subject to a number of tolerance and strike variables.

If the trackman was reading perfectly, and your strike was dead centre, well that would be terrible news as the fitting head would benon conforming, and the head that arrives for would perform significanlty worse....

This is why I came on asking the question about it. I was very impressed with the fitter and I would not question his ability to custom fit people. The thing is Trackman measures clubhead speed and ball speed, doesn't it? So if the clubhead was showing a faster speed than it actually was then the smash would actually be better than it was reading, ie:
106 clubhead with 159 ball speed gives 1.5 smash.
If the clubhead was actually travelling at 100 with 159 ball then that's a 1.59 smash.

The crazy thing was all of the strikes were more or less dead centre, apart from a couple. If I remember correctly I was at 13.9* launch with 2350 spin, when put with 103 clubhead is right in the window to optimize the strike.

I am no expert on how trackman works exactly and how it can give false readings. I just understand how to interpret the data it gives out.
 

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I'm with sweaty sock, either the measurements are out or it's a rogue head. The article below gives a good explanation of all the elements.

 

Backache

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I am no expert on how trackman works exactly and how it can give false readings. I just understand how to interpret the data it gives out.
Trackman calculates club head speed by radar from the estimated centre of mass of the club head. GC quad apparently measures the club face speed so the GC quad will give higher speeds and therefore lower smash factors.
 

Whereditgo

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I remember listening to one of the Sweet Spot podcasts and Adam Young was explaining that toe strikes can give a higher smash factor owing to the extra forgiveness across the face in modern clubs, basically as the clubhead is moving through impact the toe is moving faster than the heel as the clubhead rotates. But that would tend to introduce draw spin and you were getting a fade. 🤷‍♂️
 

sweaty sock

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This is why I came on asking the question about it. I was very impressed with the fitter and I would not question his ability to custom fit people. The thing is Trackman measures clubhead speed and ball speed, doesn't it? So if the clubhead was showing a faster speed than it actually was then the smash would actually be better than it was reading, ie:
106 clubhead with 159 ball speed gives 1.5 smash.
If the clubhead was actually travelling at 100 with 159 ball then that's a 1.59 smash.

The crazy thing was all of the strikes were more or less dead centre, apart from a couple. If I remember correctly I was at 13.9* launch with 2350 spin, when put with 103 clubhead is right in the window to optimize the strike.

I am no expert on how trackman works exactly and how it can give false readings. I just understand how to interpret the data it gives out.

Ok, but if trackman was measuring the clubhead at the centre of mass as 100mph, then the actual speed would be between 98.5 and 101.5, due to the uncertainty of measurement tolerance. With a ball speed of 150, smash factor could be anywhere between 1.477 and 1.523.
 
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