Annual review reduction

[Tashyboy]

Tashy maybe the handicap sec has been on here and seen all your posts about you smashing it, and given you a good old fashioned GP cut

😁my last post on the i played today thread was more about eating chocolate from Me selection box. The golf was crap. 😖

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Seriously, how does that work ? What’s the point of it ?

Our course is quite long, it is one of its key defences. In winter the whites are off and we tend to play at the front of the yellows. The scoring, stableford, tends to be much higher because of this. That would give artificially lower handicaps during this period but then scupper you come summer. This way the handicaps become accurate for the winter tees but return to normal when the course returns to its usual length. As an example, in the summer only a small number, 3 or 4, will get 36 points or more. 37 or 38 will get you a win. This winter 36 will get you somewhere in the teens in terms of placement and you will need 40 plus to win, 42-45 most likely.

An added bonus is that for those who use winter to try new things, grip, swing etc you can still enter the comps and know that if your scores are poorer whilst the changes bed in it isn't going to affect your handicap. It encourages those people to still enter the comps rather than avoid them. We have low comp participation so every little helps.

In effect each winter comp is a free hit, a bit of fun. Money up for grabs so you want to do well still. I think it makes sense, for our course anyway.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I’m a bit confused - your handicap changed in October and you didn’t realise for 3 months ? Do you not have a link to you results online ? You have played comps in the meantime don’t your results show the active HC on them as well ?

Yes the club should inform every single person affected by a HC review but then any Comp you play it’s your responsibility to ensure the correct HC is on the scorecard - do you not enter the scores into the PSI ? Which then shows what your HC is

 

[rosecott]

I’m a bit confused - your handicap changed in October and you didn’t realise for 3 months ? Do you not have a link to you results online ? You have played comps in the meantime don’t your results show the active HC on them as well ?

Yes the club should inform every single person affected by a HC review but then any Comp you play it’s your responsibility to ensure the correct HC is on the scorecard - do you not enter the scores into the PSI ? Which then shows what your HC is

I'm betting Tashy will crack under that sort of interrogation.

 

[woofers]

LT - thanks for your detailed reply, however I don’t see how CONGU or your local Union would sanction separate handicaps, you can only have one handicap, so presumably these competitions are non qualifiers?
It seems to me that your course hasn’t got the right SSS for the forward winter tees if it is that much easier than the whites.

 

[Tashyboy]

I’m a bit confused - your handicap changed in October and you didn’t realise for 3 months ? Do you not have a link to you results online ? You have played comps in the meantime don’t your results show the active HC on them as well ?

Yes the club should inform every single person affected by a HC review but then any Comp you play it’s your responsibility to ensure the correct HC is on the scorecard - do you not enter the scores into the PSI ? Which then shows what your HC is

When the Q comps finished at the end of October my hcap was 19.6. After that it is NQ comps till the end of March. In that time I have played 5 comps and 3 were 9 hole comps. The last Q company I played I went up 0.1 to 19.6 so on SI 2 ( front nine) I never knew if I had one shot or two. One of those 9 hole comps was a back nine if memory serves me right so again on SI 1 i never knew if I had 1 or two. I never came anywhere near winning owt so just banged in score. Tuesday was the first comps I had played since Dec 20th. Like I say the pro put 19 on my card and I thought what's he doing. A PP told me I was 18.6 and I automatically though it had been done on Jan 1st. Over the last few years when I thought I could be on for a annual cut, I asked the club secretary when they do it and he said usually the first few weeks in Jan. So I never even thought to have a look. Coz I haven't played this year due to man flu, looking for me hcap was low down on me list of

 

[Tashyboy]

I'm betting Tashy will crack under that sort of interrogation.

😂 😂😂 Outta interest Jim, as Congu state an email should be sent out to members who have had a cut ( or is it handicap change) is there a reason why clubs do it when they want.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

LT - thanks for your detailed reply, however I don’t see how CONGU or your local Union would sanction separate handicaps, you can only have one handicap, so presumably these competitions are non qualifiers?
It seems to me that your course hasn’t got the right SSS for the forward winter tees if it is that much easier than the whites.

Sorry, yes they are non qualifiers. The winter handicaps are internal. They press a button on April 1st or whatever and they return back to being live again.

I thought most clubs winter comps were non qualifiers, is that not the case? Crossed wires on this, sorry.

 

[Rlburnside]

Our course is quite long, it is one of its key defences. In winter the whites are off and we tend to play at the front of the yellows. The scoring, stableford, tends to be much higher because of this. That would give artificially lower handicaps during this period but then scupper you come summer. This way the handicaps become accurate for the winter tees but return to normal when the course returns to its usual length. As an example, in the summer only a small number, 3 or 4, will get 36 points or more. 37 or 38 will get you a win. This winter 36 will get you somewhere in the teens in terms of placement and you will need 40 plus to win, 42-45 most likely.

An added bonus is that for those who use winter to try new things, grip, swing etc you can still enter the comps and know that if your scores are poorer whilst the changes bed in it isn't going to affect your handicap. It encourages those people to still enter the comps rather than avoid them. We have low comp participation so every little helps.

In effect each winter comp is a free hit, a bit of fun. Money up for grabs so you want to do well still. I think it makes sense, for our course anyway.

We do the same as you for winter and agree it's a good way of keeping competitive and it's a bit more fun playing a shorter course in winter.

We get cut on anything over 36 points relative to our h/c, I finished the season on 19 but after winning the winter comp. before Xmas i am playing off 16 now.

 

[duncan mackie]

I thought most clubs winter comps were non qualifiers, is that not the case? Crossed wires on this, sorry.

We run Q comps all year. We use forward tees (with their appropriate SSS ratings) and the scoring generally reflects the conditions on the day as it does at other times of the year.

The flaw in your handicap argument, as presented, is that if a high and low handicap player from your club went to play in an open on a short course their relative handicaps don't suddenly get adjusted (accepting that they might once slope is in place).

 

[rosecott]

😂 😂😂 Outta interest Jim, as Congu state an email should be sent out to members who have had a cut ( or is it handicap change) is there a reason why clubs do it when they want.

If you're talking about when the Annual Review is undertaken, it's between October and March. We run qualifiers all year round and always run the Annual Review report on 1st January so a full year is covered every time. The Handicap Committee consider the report and send a letter to all who have been adjusted - up or down.

 

[woofers]

And should display a list of handicap changes in a prominent position at the club - see CONGU Manual, para 7.5 Responsibilities of the Handicap Committee.

 

[rosecott]

And should display a list of handicap changes in a prominent position at the club - see CONGU Manual, para 7.5 Responsibilities of the Handicap Committee.

That is done routinely for any handicap changes as per 7.5. I am talking about Annual Review changes which are not routine and which require additional action.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We run Q comps all year. We use forward tees (with their appropriate SSS ratings) and the scoring generally reflects the conditions on the day as it does at other times of the year.

The flaw in your handicap argument, as presented, is that if a high and low handicap player from your club went to play in an open on a short course their relative handicaps don't suddenly get adjusted (accepting that they might once slope is in place).

Not sure I fully agree with that, I may not be fully understanding your point though. When you go to another, shorter, course the defences of that course are likely to be different and so the skill set required is also different. My course is long but fairly open. Greens are wide but not necessarily deep, they are fairly flat. There are lots of fairway bunkers but greenside ones are not excessive. Very different to a shorter, tighter course with lots of greenside bunkers, undulating greens etc. (I know I'm telling you the obvious here but it makes it clear in my head then).

People score artificially well at ours in winter as its key defence, its length, has been removed. It's like playing a links course for 3-4 months with no wind, guaranteed, or a heavily bunkered course that have them GUR all winter.

 

[rulefan]

And should display a list of handicap changes in a prominent position at the club - see CONGU Manual, para 7.5 Responsibilities of the Handicap Committee.

ANNUAL REVIEW
23.5 The Handicap Committee must advise a player of any change of handicap under this clause and the change will become effective when the player becomes aware of the adjustment.
Unlike changes to handicap resulting from participation in Qualifying Competitions, adjustments of handicap under this Clause are not of a routine nature and often cannot be anticipated by the players affected. Consequently, it is not considered to be sufficient for a Handicap Committee merely to post a list of changes on the club notice board. Individual Members should be notified in writing or by some other agreed method of communication adopted by the club.

 

[duncan mackie]

Not sure I fully agree with that, I may not be fully understanding your point though. When you go to another, shorter, course the defences of that course are likely to be different and so the skill set required is also different. My course is long but fairly open. Greens are wide but not necessarily deep, they are fairly flat. There are lots of fairway bunkers but greenside ones are not excessive. Very different to a shorter, tighter course with lots of greenside bunkers, undulating greens etc. (I know I'm telling you the obvious here but it makes it clear in my head then).

People score artificially well at ours in winter as its key defence, its length, has been removed. It's like playing a links course for 3-4 months with no wind, guaranteed, or a heavily bunkered course that have them GUR all winter.

Appreciate the response, and again all points accepted.
However there are shorter course with less hazards and or rough out there somewhere....
My point is that any appropriate handicap adjustments would have to be ability neutral - and as such become pointless. Yes, players with different playing attributes will either gain, or lose, advantages from the evolving conditions and adjusted course layout - but you shouldn't be tweaking handicaps in an attempt to compensate.
Best example I can give is that you can play the same course from any rated set of tees for your handicaprompt. Shorter hitters will generally choose to use the forward tees, and longer ones the back tees as both feel they will get the better deal for their capabilities from the ratings of those tees. All very normal

 

[Orikoru]

Sorry, yes they are non qualifiers. The winter handicaps are internal. They press a button on April 1st or whatever and they return back to being live again.

I thought most clubs winter comps were non qualifiers, is that not the case? Crossed wires on this, sorry.

Our comps continue to run with handicap changes all year round. But then we never have have winter tees either, it's the same tees you play in summer.