Acceptable pairs betterball scores

[Neilds]

This is the world WHS gives us.

A pair of golfers play 4BBB, both score a 4, both put their score on the scorecard, and if they keep doing this we are told they should be sanctioned!???? Why? To make the admin easier for organisers, because they don't know which 4 counted!?

That, in my opinion, is a disgrace. And does nothing to make the game more appealing. Putting 2 scores on a scorecard will nearly become a crime equal to kicking your ball out of the rough, both worthy of sanctioning golfers

How about common sense, where if both score a 4, they can both put their score on the card, and it is logical to assume that both players would have had a counting score, regardless of what the other did or did not do? Thus, if 2 players matched their nett scores on 10 holes, for example, they both will have more than 10 counting scores and they can both have the round counting towards handicap? Or did the authorities not take into account that occasionally a pair of golfers will get the same score on a hole when coming up with their "genius" approach to deal with 4BBB scores for handicapping?

You make a good point but spoil it all by trying to blame WHS. Not sure what it has to do with WHS?

 

[Swango1980]

You make a good point but spoil it all by trying to blame WHS. Not sure what it has to do with WHS?

The process has come about since WHS introduced 4BBB scores in for handicaps, and created the methodology of creating hole scores that are missing.

 

[D-S]

Isn't it a fundamental principle that you must not cherry pick scores that go onto your handicap record?

Surely the way that only good scores in 4BBB go onto the record is cherry picking.

I always think of these scores not really being part of your proper handicap record but more of a crude way of automating the request that clubs sent the names and scores of winners of their 4BB Opens to the players home clubs for information and possibly evidence in a handicap review. This in reality rarely happened and the resulting actions by handicap Committees were incredibly varied.

These scores on one’s records are really a mini review rather than proper individual scores for handicap.

 

[Neilds]

The process has come about since WHS introduced 4BBB scores in for handicaps, and created the methodology of creating hole scores that are missing.

But the organisers probably wanted it this way before?

 

[Swango1980]

But the organisers probably wanted it this way before?

True. And I would also like more scores from events such as this to go in for handicap. The fact that these scores can be used on a players handicap record is not what I'm against. It is the methodology that has been used to do it.

I said before, if such scores are to be used for handicap, then I think it should just be done in a simple way. A bit like the marketing when they told golfers in singles play to just play golf and let the computer worry about your competition score. That is, in 4BBB or Best 2 of 4 Team events (if it were to be used as well), all players just go out and play stableford type golf, put in your scores, and let the computer worry about your Team Score.

Also, another side problem I've seen from some, when just entering one score is that when the players go to enter the scores on the PSI, they get muddled up as to whose score they are sometimes entering. It is also a pain when putting in a No Score for the other player, as the Club V1 PSI brings you to another screen, where you need to confirm if the hole was played or not. Personally, I find it much easier when you just fire in both scores for each player as you cycle through each hole.

 

[upsidedown]

On our club V1 touchscreen just touch the box for the next score , avoids the scenario you describe

 

[Swango1980]

Won a 4BBB yesterday. We ended up with 54 points. By the time we got in the back 9, it was hard to believe how well we kept doing, it is almost like we hit a flow of not worrying about messing up any hole, and just feeling very comfortable that we were playing well, and had a steady person to back each other up if needed,

The difference to a regular 4BBB was that both scores counted on the four Par 3's. If it was a traditional 4BBB, we'd have ended up with 46 points. My current Index if 9.6, and if I just take my own scores, my differential would have been 5.5. My partner has an index of 10.1, and taking his individual scores, he'd have had differential of 3.1..

Anyway, I presume that this 4BBB event will not touch our handicap record, simply because 2 scores counted on some holes? If so, is that a weakness of the system, or an acceptable reason to not account for 4BBB events such as this one for handicap?

I also note that my partner's score probably counted on most holes, meaning even if it was traditional 4BBB my handicap wouldn't get touched anyway. Seems odd, especially as there were lots of holes where he finished first, simply because it gave me a chance to go for an extra point by being more aggressive (in which I'd often fail to make the putt). Thus, my score didn't appear on the card for that hole, even though it would have been the same as his, and often I would have been in the stronger position by the time we got to the green. Conversely, on the holes where my score did count, my partner was in a strong position. For example, we both had a birdie each, whilst the other had a par for 3 points (actually, I may well have birdied his birdie hole as well for 4 points, as mine was closer). Yet, is it true that the system would simply just give us 1.5 points if our score didn't count, rather than the 3 (or maybe 4) we would have actually got?

 

[wjemather]

Won a 4BBB yesterday. We ended up with 54 points. By the time we got in the back 9, it was hard to believe how well we kept doing, it is almost like we hit a flow of not worrying about messing up any hole, and just feeling very comfortable that we were playing well, and had a steady person to back each other up if needed,

The difference to a regular 4BBB was that both scores counted on the four Par 3's. If it was a traditional 4BBB, we'd have ended up with 46 points. My current Index if 9.6, and if I just take my own scores, my differential would have been 5.5. My partner has an index of 10.1, and taking his individual scores, he'd have had differential of 3.1..

Anyway, I presume that this 4BBB event will not touch our handicap record, simply because 2 scores counted on some holes? If so, is that a weakness of the system, or an acceptable reason to not account for 4BBB events such as this one for handicap?

I also note that my partner's score probably counted on most holes, meaning even if it was traditional 4BBB my handicap wouldn't get touched anyway. Seems odd, especially as there were lots of holes where he finished first, simply because it gave me a chance to go for an extra point by being more aggressive (in which I'd often fail to make the putt). Thus, my score didn't appear on the card for that hole, even though it would have been the same as his, and often I would have been in the stronger position by the time we got to the green. Conversely, on the holes where my score did count, my partner was in a strong position. For example, we both had a birdie each, whilst the other had a par for 3 points (actually, I may well have birdied his birdie hole as well for 4 points, as mine was closer). Yet, is it true that the system would simply just give us 1.5 points if our score didn't count, rather than the 3 (or maybe 4) we would have actually got?

You weren't playing 4BBB.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Won a 4BBB yesterday. We ended up with 54 points. By the time we got in the back 9, it was hard to believe how well we kept doing, it is almost like we hit a flow of not worrying about messing up any hole, and just feeling very comfortable that we were playing well, and had a steady person to back each other up if needed,

The difference to a regular 4BBB was that both scores counted on the four Par 3's. If it was a traditional 4BBB, we'd have ended up with 46 points. My current Index if 9.6, and if I just take my own scores, my differential would have been 5.5. My partner has an index of 10.1, and taking his individual scores, he'd have had differential of 3.1..

Anyway, I presume that this 4BBB event will not touch our handicap record, simply because 2 scores counted on some holes? If so, is that a weakness of the system, or an acceptable reason to not account for 4BBB events such as this one for handicap?

I also note that my partner's score probably counted on most holes, meaning even if it was traditional 4BBB my handicap wouldn't get touched anyway. Seems odd, especially as there were lots of holes where he finished first, simply because it gave me a chance to go for an extra point by being more aggressive (in which I'd often fail to make the putt). Thus, my score didn't appear on the card for that hole, even though it would have been the same as his, and often I would have been in the stronger position by the time we got to the green. Conversely, on the holes where my score did count, my partner was in a strong position. For example, we both had a birdie each, whilst the other had a par for 3 points (actually, I may well have birdied his birdie hole as well for 4 points, as mine was closer). Yet, is it true that the system would simply just give us 1.5 points if our score didn't count, rather than the 3 (or maybe 4) we would have actually got?

That appears to be more like a modified waltz as opposed to a 4BBB comp

 

[Swango1980]

That appears to be more like a modified waltz as opposed to a 4BBB comp

On 14 holes it was surely 4BBB, where the best score counted. The only difference being on the other 4 holes, the worst score was also added to the total.

 

[Swango1980]

You weren't playing 4BBB.

Thank-you. That is all I needed to know.

The competition I played yesterday cannot be used for handicap because it cannot provide an accurate reflection in how either player has actually played. Unlike 4BBB, where an accurate reflection is possible.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

On 14 holes it was surely 4BBB, where the best score counted. The only difference being on the other 4 holes, the worst score was also added to the total.

It’s not a 4bbb comp - as soon as you make it both scores to count etc it’s no longer betterball

 

[Swango1980]

Which was my point in the original message. The slight change in format compared to a 4BBB format means it is no longer 4BBB, thus cannot be used for handicap.

It certainly isn't a Waltz. It is definitely better defined as a modified 4BBB than a modified Waltz.