Orikoru
Tour Winner
Ok. Agreed on that.
Zero Torque Putters? Is it hype or a thing?
- Thread starter seochris
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Golf is fun
Active member
What do you mean by "up and down"?
If you mean a vertical arc, like a Ferris wheel then I'm describing both this and a horizontal arc (like a merry go round), because the spine angle when addressing a put is neither completely horizontal nor completely vertical there is both a horizontal and a vertical component to the arc.
That said none of my posts about arcs are directly related to LAB putters, especially given LAB themselves talk about the putter remaining square to arc of the putting stroke. This was in response to the concept of a putting stroke being straight back and straight through.
Dunesman
Well-known member
The discussion on swing on an arc, or a straight line, and the biomechanics of, is moot in relation to the putters being discussed here.
With the torque itself so low, it is of no consequence on the return or not of the clubface to square (maybe if a fly were swinging it it might), whether the club is moved on an arc or a straight line.
The hands control the clubface angle, not the other way around.
With the torque itself so low, it is of no consequence on the return or not of the clubface to square (maybe if a fly were swinging it it might), whether the club is moved on an arc or a straight line.
The hands control the clubface angle, not the other way around.
Golf is fun
Active member
I'm not a boxer or boxing expert and I'm not going to claim to be, so I have a sincere question.
When performing a straight punch (lets assume a right hander) where does the fist start? my assumption would be pulled back and if you looked from above just to the right of the shoulder, same as if you stood normally and pulled your arm back. Is this correct?
When the punch is complete, where is the fist? My assumption is if you remove all the hip and torso rotation to keep it simple, it's in the same position as if you stood normally and had your arm extended, which from a top down view would be in front of the shoulder. Is this correct?
If the above assumptions are correct, and are how you'd normally and naturally move your arm when pulling it back or pushing it forward, notice the fist travels in a very slight arc from outside the shoulder to in front of it. It's a really shallow arc, but it's an arc.
Like I said I'm not a boxer but to me if you keep it in front of the shoulder when pulling back you'd have to internally rotate the arm and flare the elbow out which feels weird. Likewise if you keep it outside the shoulder at full extension this also feels weird and unnatural.
RichA
Well-known member
If that is all true then why are you focusing on just debunking zero torque putters?
Your rationale would suggest that from extreme toe hang to face-balanced to zero torque, there is no difference as the torque is negligible.
Dunesman
Well-known member
Because its the topic of the thread. Whether there really anything to debunk and whether any solid claim is truly being made, I am not sure. It seems more an open trap that people are voluntarily walking in to.
The other discussion is valid also though. Heal or toe balancing probably play as zero an effect during the swing itself as the zero torque design, but I would be open on the discussion of whether there is a meaningful effect in the striking of the ball on off COG strikes and deflection of the face angle. That is a more straightforward MOI issue. I would still tend towards the forces being to low to affect a put in a meaningful way though.
RichA
Well-known member
Yeah
The effect of torque on the basic swing would, I think, depend on how firmly the player holds the grip of the putter.
I hold it quite firmly, so the effect for me is minimal. I'm able to keep my hands and wrists pretty stable with a toe-hang putter.
Players with hands that are too active when putting might benefit from a putter that can be held with the lightest of grips because it doesn't twist at all, so prevents them using their wrists in the stroke.
Yeah. Twisting for off centre strikes is surely entirely an MOI issue.
The effect of torque on the basic swing would, I think, depend on how firmly the player holds the grip of the putter.
I hold it quite firmly, so the effect for me is minimal. I'm able to keep my hands and wrists pretty stable with a toe-hang putter.
Players with hands that are too active when putting might benefit from a putter that can be held with the lightest of grips because it doesn't twist at all, so prevents them using their wrists in the stroke.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I will admit that the 'revealer' where they spin the putter round is certainly a meaningless gimmick designed to hoodwink people into thinking that's of some benefit. I guess it just shows that the putter isn't going to open and close itself, like a toe-hang putter would do. But presumably, some people want the putter to open and close like a toe-hang putter does, otherwise they wouldn't sell any toe-hang putters.
Different strokes for different folk.
Different strokes for different folk.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
No space for common sense on hereI will admit that the 'revealer' where they spin the putter round is certainly a meaningless gimmick designed to hoodwink people into thinking that's of some benefit. I guess it just shows that the putter isn't going to open and close itself, like a toe-hang putter would do. But presumably, some people want the putter to open and close like a toe-hang putter does, otherwise they wouldn't sell any toe-hang putters.
Different strokes for different folk.
VVega
Assistant Pro
I wouldn’t call trying to explain biomechanics in simple terms waffle… Not sure why some people struggle to accept the basics of how things are
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
I wonder.....if this had been brought to the market by Scotty C, Odesey or Ping, would there be the amount of fightback against them?
VVega
Assistant Pro
Major manufacturers routinely make outlandish marketing claims which are then happily ridiculed by everyone, so no, don’t think the brand name has anything to do with it.
Golf is fun
Active member
If any manufacturer made outlandish claims, I think people would challenge them.
The one thing I will say is Ping are generally pretty good at producing and publishing research around their developments. It's still manufacturer endorsed, so needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but some of it is really good. The stuff they are looking at at the moment around wedge angle of attack and bounce is interesting if you like that kind of stuff.
VVega
Assistant Pro
Agreed, Ping is better the most
I did see the video on wedges that Golfwell did with them. Similar to the one I posted earlier on putting - very detailed.Neilds
Assistant Pro
If you want hype then maybe Scotty C is the place to start - they don’t have any ‘tech’ but people still claim they make them better at putting
Crow
Crow Person
VVega
Assistant Pro
Yeah but yeah but … look at the new milling pattern!!!Scotty C bring a new idea out?
You're entering the realms of fantasy now.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
If you want hype then maybe Scotty C is the place to start - they don’t have any ‘tech’ but people still claim they make them better at putting
Easy tiger!
In the last 4 years they’ve blinged up the alignment line, changed the buttons to silver from red, even went all extreme and painted the same head black… really out there!
Dunesman
Well-known member
Putters are just fast fashion then, with the fashion element different 'tech' stories and a corporate look, to catch a season's imagination ?
Scottys more like jewellery, with bling, inbuilt brand-display, and how much the owner spent on it, their primary appeal point ?
Scottys more like jewellery, with bling, inbuilt brand-display, and how much the owner spent on it, their primary appeal point ?
Burnsey
Well-known member
Is your golf bag the lightest, the most waterproof, most ergonomic, most hardwearing, prettiest, or all of those?
People buy for different reasons, but I'd say a putter is more based on how few shots per round they result in.
Marketing can play a part of course.
Thread is so off track now, it may as well be about Christmas trees.
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