Zero Torque Putters? Is it hype or a thing?

[WirralC]

I was, they're intrinsically related. The body is designed to most naturally and efficiently move in a certain way, that you prefer to move in a different, more inefficient way, and it works for you is fine, but that's an outlier. Generally moving in the way our body is designed to is the most accurate and powerful way to do something.

It’s inefficient in your opinion, I hole more putts which makes it more efficient. I’m not sure of your profession so maybe you have some professional expertise in biomechanics but from what I know from what works for one may not be the best for another for multiple reasons of strength and flexibility.

 

[Golf is fun]

It’s inefficient in your opinion, I hole more putts which makes it more efficient. I’m not sure of your profession so maybe you have some professional expertise in biomechanics but from what I know from what works for one may not be the best for another for multiple reasons of strength and flexibility.

Not my profession, but if it makes a difference my background is that I competed to an elite level in another sport, and studied sports science and physics.

It's inefficient from a scientific perspective, not my opinion. Like I said that it works for you is great, and if you're happy don't change, but you're an outlier. In the same way you'd never try and change Jim Furyk's swing, because it works for him, but you'd also never teach a beginner to swing like that because it's not generally the most efficient way and Jim is an outlier.

None of this should be taken personally, it's not meant as an insult or anything derogatory.

 

[simsini]

I started a thread asking about Bettinardi putters, I'm seriously tempted by the Antidote putter.

 

[WirralC]

Not my profession, but if it makes a difference my background is that I competed to an elite level in another sport, and studied sports science and physics.

It's inefficient from a scientific perspective, not my opinion. Like I said that it works for you is great, and if you're happy don't change, but you're an outlier. In the same way you'd never try and change Jim Furyk's swing, because it works for him, but you'd also never teach a beginner to swing like that because it's not generally the most efficient way and Jim is an outlier.

None of this should be taken personally, it's not meant as an insult or anything derogatory.

I competed as a professional fighter for 10 years and coached several fighters to world titles. Some could generate more power with a hook, others with a straight punch. Following your logic all the fighters who preferred a straighter punch were wrong and inefficient. Comparing people who use these putters to a complete one off swing like furyk is ridiculous in my opinion. I’ll say no more on it as we’re never going to agree

 

[Springveldt]

I don’t ever recall thinking to myself “wow the putter twisted there when I hit the ball” even with toe hits the putter feels stable to me

There are putts I've hit were I've thought instantly "I've closed the face massively on that" and it missing 1 foot left. No sure if it's twisting or I've just closed the face. I'm not willing to spend £700 to find out though.

 

[Golf is fun]

I competed as a professional fighter for 10 years and coached several fighters to world titles. Some could generate more power with a hook, others with a straight punch. Following your logic all the fighters who preferred a straighter punch were wrong and inefficient. Comparing people who use these putters to a complete one off swing like furyk is ridiculous in my opinion. I’ll say no more on it as we’re never going to agree

We don't have to agree. If we only ever have discussions when we agree eon a topic we never learn anything.

Assigning me a position to something I have never said is a bit of a strawman, a punch straight or otherwise isn't really comparable to a putting stroke. However when you throw a straight do you keep your hips and shoulders square to your opponent for the whole movement? The power behind the punch comes from the hips, torso and shoulders which start open to the opponent and rotate in an arcing motion.

We can also run in a linear straight line, but in general the anatomy of the body favours arcs.

 

[seochris]

Are we in danger of over thinking this a bit?
It’s a putter! Not a magic wand! I can attest that it will not fix a poor putting stroke!
It’s designed specifically to bring the face back to square when you hit the ball….so surely it’s just another way of achieving that together with toe hang and face balance etc etc….
No one solution is a fit all.
My experience with the square to square is that putts are staring better (not all) on my intended line. It does take a bit of getting used to and persistence but for me it works better that my toe hang Scottys and the odyssey #7. It’s has a lot of shaft lean/forward press at address but does feel quite stable on the long putts albeit it’s very subtle. Previously on my longer putts I used to shove them right then over correct and pull them left….
All I am looking for are the no pressure 2 putts and eliminating the intensely annoying 3 putts. I have had some of those but they were attributable to length and not line…
I’ve not tried a lab putter.

 

[Springveldt]

I competed as a professional fighter for 10 years and coached several fighters to world titles. Some could generate more power with a hook, others with a straight punch. Following your logic all the fighters who preferred a straighter punch were wrong and inefficient. Comparing people who use these putters to a complete one off swing like furyk is ridiculous in my opinion. I’ll say no more on it as we’re never going to agree

But those straight punches will be generated by rotating their hips and upper torso, right? So they are still rotating, they aren't pulling their body straight back and through.

 

[hambugerpete]

Are these different to face balanced putters? I guess they can only really help with short putts where line is most important?

 

[Golf is fun]

Are we in danger of over thinking this a bit?
It’s a putter! Not a magic wand! I can attest that it will not fix a poor putting stroke!
It’s designed specifically to bring the face back to square when you hit the ball….so surely it’s just another way of achieving that together with toe hang and face balance etc etc….
No one solution is a fit all.
My experience with the square to square is that putts are staring better (not all) on my intended line. It does take a bit of getting used to and persistence but for me it works better that my toe hang Scottys and the odyssey #7. It’s has a lot of shaft lean/forward press at address but does feel quite stable on the long putts albeit it’s very subtle. Previously on my longer putts I used to shove them right then over correct and pull them left….
All I am looking for are the no pressure 2 putts and eliminating the intensely annoying 3 putts. I have had some of those but they were attributable to length and not line…
I’ve not tried a lab putter.

I just find the discussion interesting. Even if you don't think about it when executing, it is interesting to know the science behind how the kit and the body works, at least to me anyway.

In practical terms we should use what works for us, and if someone is holing puts with one of these, they'd be mad to change anything.

 

[Orikoru]

I was, they're intrinsically related. The body is designed to most naturally and efficiently move in a certain way, that you prefer to move in a different, more inefficient way, and it works for you is fine, but that's an outlier. Generally moving in the way our body is designed to is the most accurate and powerful way to do something.

I'm probably misunderstanding you again, but you seem to be implying that all of us are naturally able to putt well using our natural instincts, but we all know that's complete nonsense. Some people's natural way of hitting the ball will produce dreadful shots. Surely you understand this?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There are putts I've hit were I've thought instantly "I've closed the face massively on that" and it missing 1 foot left. No sure if it's twisting or I've just closed the face. I'm not willing to spend £700 to find out though.

Have you tried your mates putter? I someone I knew had an expensive putter I'd be having a putt or two with it . Then again, if they went in I'd only want one so maybe for the best......

 

[Oddsocks]

Are these different to face balanced putters? I guess they can only really help with short putts where line is most important?

This has been covered further back as I asked exactly the same question.

 

[hambugerpete]

This has been covered further back as I asked exactly the same question.

OK

 

[Golf is fun]

I'm probably misunderstanding you again, but you seem to be implying that all of us are naturally able to putt well using our natural instincts, but we all know that's complete nonsense. Some people's natural way of hitting the ball will produce dreadful shots. Surely you understand this?

Some people do some really crazy things. I'm definitely not saying all of us are able to naturally be good putters.

What I was attempting to say is that the way the human body is built, the simplest most natural movement when in a putting stance is to rock the shoulders, treating the arms and putter like a pendulum. This will cause the putter to move in an arc the centre of which would be the spine, the amount of curve in the arc will vary depending on your height, limb lengths, amount of hip bend etc...

If you want the putter to move in a straight line, you'd have to add in additional compensating movements pushing your arms away from you on the backswing and pulling them towards you on the downswing and then away from you again on the follow through. Someone could absolutely make this move work, but it's adding in a load of unnecessary movement and not how you'd teach someone or how most people would naturally swing an implement.

 

[Orikoru]

Some people do some really crazy things. I'm definitely not saying all of us are able to naturally be good putters.

What I was attempting to say is that the way the human body is built, the simplest most natural movement when in a putting stance is to rock the shoulders, treating the arms and putter like a pendulum. This will cause the putter to move in an arc the centre of which would be the spine, the amount of curve in the arc will vary depending on your height, limb lengths, amount of hip bend etc...

If you want the putter to move in a straight line, you'd have to add in additional compensating movements pushing your arms away from you on the backswing and pulling them towards you on the downswing and then away from you again on the follow through. Someone could absolutely make this move work, but it's adding in a load of unnecessary movement and not how you'd teach someone or how most people would naturally swing an implement.

You seem to waffle on about this sort of thing constantly without really making any saliant points. Yes in the ideal world we can all naturally putt perfectly, but in real life, some people natural instincts are wrong. Some people pick up a putter and instinctively start flicking their wrists to make it move. Everyone will have that slight arc, but some people's arc will be a big semi-circle rather than something slight.

I think it's just your use of the word 'natural' and my definition of it that are differing perhaps. You're talking about what's natural for the human body, but I'm saying every different golfer will have different movements that feel 'natural' to them, and some of them will be completely inefficient towards holing putts.

Maybe these zero torque putters help people feel that 'natural' swing you're talking about, because the weight of the putter isn't pulling them a particular way.

 

[Springveldt]

Have you tried your mates putter? I someone I knew had an expensive putter I'd be having a putt or two with it . Then again, if they went in I'd only want one so maybe for the best......

Not been fitted for me so must be garbage, right?

 

[WirralC]

But those straight punches will be generated by rotating their hips and upper torso, right? So they are still rotating, they aren't pulling their body straight back and through.

We don't have to agree. If we only ever have discussions when we agree eon a topic we never learn anything.

Assigning me a position to something I have never said is a bit of a strawman, a punch straight or otherwise isn't really comparable to a putting stroke. However when you throw a straight do you keep your hips and shoulders square to your opponent for the whole movement? The power behind the punch comes from the hips, torso and shoulders which start open to the opponent and rotate in an arcing motion.

We can also run in a linear straight line, but in general the anatomy of the body favours arcs.

No you manipulate your body to deliver it straight, just like you’d do to deliver a straight line in a putt. The most natural movement is to throw an overhand haymaker, but that’s not the most efficient way to punch. Taking your logic of what’s most natural wouldn’t work.

 

[Neilds]

Some people do some really crazy things. I'm definitely not saying all of us are able to naturally be good putters.

What I was attempting to say is that the way the human body is built, the simplest most natural movement when in a putting stance is to rock the shoulders, treating the arms and putter like a pendulum. This will cause the putter to move in an arc the centre of which would be the spine, the amount of curve in the arc will vary depending on your height, limb lengths, amount of hip bend etc...

If you want the putter to move in a straight line, you'd have to add in additional compensating movements pushing your arms away from you on the backswing and pulling them towards you on the downswing and then away from you again on the follow through. Someone could absolutely make this move work, but it's adding in a load of unnecessary movement and not how you'd teach someone or how most people would naturally swing an implement.

All good logical stuff but the arc that LAB are on about is around the body and not up and down as you are describing it.

 

[Golf is fun]

You seem to waffle on about this sort of thing constantly without really making any saliant points. Yes in the ideal world we can all naturally putt perfectly, but in real life, some people natural instincts are wrong. Some people pick up a putter and instinctively start flicking their wrists to make it move. Everyone will have that slight arc, but some people's arc will be a big semi-circle rather than something slight.

I think it's just your use of the word 'natural' and my definition of it that are differing perhaps. You're talking about what's natural for the human body, but I'm saying every different golfer will have different movements that feel 'natural' to them, and some of them will be completely inefficient towards holing putts.

Maybe these zero torque putters help people feel that 'natural' swing you're talking about, because the weight of the putter isn't pulling them a particular way.

The point which we both already agree on was literally that swinging in an arc is how the body moves.

There was a claim made about moving the putter straight back and straight through, no one actually does this, and it is also not a natural way for the body to move, so I explained why this is the case.