Your feedback needed - a solution to slow play?

[barrybridges]

Before I begin, I know you're all going to say 'you have far too much time on my hands', which I do.

I would like to ask people for their constructive feedback and thoughts on something I've created.

As we all know, slow play is the bane of most golfers' lives. After yet another 5+ hour round at my local club yesterday I thought I'd do something constructive about it.

Available below is a spreadsheet that I have put together:

http://www.barrybridges.biz/GOLF.xlsx

What I've been thinking about is whether golf clubs could think more intelligently about their tee times, so as to better avoid congestion on the course.

At the moment, most clubs that operate pre-booked times don't really think much about where to slot people in - or if they do, they base their decision purely on the basis of how many players are in a group.

What I've done is create a system that looks not only at numbers, but handicaps - and takes the average performances for different players to semi-accurately (I hope) predict round times.

What this then does is recommend tee times for any given group based on their handicap, in a way that statistically minimises the chance of that group either catching a group ahead, or being caught by a group behind.

Obviously this is based on the 'law of averages', so won't work every time. BUT, statistically, it should work better than the current systems being used out there.

I'd really like to get your thoughts - obviously it's just a spreadsheet for now, but in particularly I'd be keen for people to have a nose under the bonnet and give feedback on my formulae. If people think it's interesting, I'm going to build a proper piece of software with this as its basis, so that clubs can use it (if they want).

To get things going, you just need to enter the hole details for the local course you play on, on the CALCULATOR tab.

On the same tab, you need to specify the number of players in the group in cell S10 - and then enter the handicaps of those players in the cells above. If you don't know, it's fine to put an estimate.

If you're a club, you can specify the intervals between tee times on the TIMESHEET tab.

The rest then takes care of itself. It takes into account strokes, time walking, lost balls and more.

If you then go to the TIMESHEET tab it will recommend tee times for you based on times where you won't catch or be caught by others. Obviously, this bit is geared towards whoever looks after the bookings for tee times.

Anyway, I'd welcome your thoughts. The only change it might make is that when someone takes a booking, they need to ask for the handicaps of those playing - and even then it'll work with an average or estimate.

 

[Imurg]

Heavy.....

Unfortunately, Me, Fragger and CVG would play our course in 3 hrs 36 but just me and Fragger would take 3 hrs 46.........
Without hold-ups Me and Fragger would take about 2 1/2.................

 

[brendy]

Had a quick look Barry, your sheet kind of assumes that all players will just accept whatever time they are given and that all fourballs members remain consistent (ie no shows etc would mean a redraft each time) Our tee booking system goes live 9 days before each saturday event which means anyone can book any time so something like your idea just wouldnt happen.

Even if it was up to the pro to set up, it would be based on the times requested for by the fourball.
Having a nice flowing 2 hour slot with a gap before it then having a member contact the pro (or whoever) and asking for that slot with his three 28 H/cap mates is going to either slow the course down, offend the golfer or perhaps, not make a difference whatsoever as every golfer is different. It is ok to assume certain things in golf but not all low handicappers are fast and not all high handicappers are slow.

You do have an awful lot of time on your hands though

 

[USER1999]

Wouldn't it be easier to find a cure for cancer?

 

[barrybridges]

Heavy.....

Unfortunately, Me, Fragger and CVG would play our course in 3 hrs 36 but just me and Fragger would take 3 hrs 46.........
Without hold-ups Me and Fragger would take about 2 1/2.................

I'd welcome your tinkering with the formulae if you can - you do need to adjust the number of players each time otherwise it will suggest you're quicker the more people you have (and - to a certain extent - that is true, as there are efficiencies gained by playing in groups)

 

[barrybridges]

Wouldn't it be easier to find a cure for cancer?

Possibly. But I'm a long way from my nearest Boots.

The point is that - underneath the bonnet - I'm sure it's possible to take steps to improve slow play issues. This all came from a recurring dream I've been having, actually (not sure I should admit to that).

Part of it is in arranging for tee times to be correctly assigned. I get so angry whenever I play at Godstone and turn up with my playing partner to find that I have several sets of fourballs ahead of me and a single behind us. It makes no sense.

The system I'm suggesting doesn't limit the times you can play - it can always be overrulled - but it suggests good times for a member of staff to book you in based on your group.

The issue I have is not necessarily with slow players who are slow because they're slow, but slow players who have really high handicaps, who duff the ball 50 yards each time. If we took handicaps into account we could assign tee times that mean they're not being pressured and others aren't having 5+ hour rounds.

 

[Imurg]

Heavy.....

Unfortunately, Me, Fragger and CVG would play our course in 3 hrs 36 but just me and Fragger would take 3 hrs 46.........
Without hold-ups Me and Fragger would take about 2 1/2.................

I'd welcome your tinkering with the formulae if you can - you do need to adjust the number of players each time otherwise it will suggest you're quicker the more people you have (and - to a certain extent - that is true, as there are efficiencies gained by playing in groups)

Double checked and I did change the numbers so something's not quite right.

Bazza - the merest thought of tinkering with a spreasdheet wouldn't even contemplate the thought of entering my head....

 

[barrybridges]

Had a quick look Barry, your sheet kind of assumes that all players will just accept whatever time they are given and that all fourballs members remain consistent (ie no shows etc would mean a redraft each time) Our tee booking system goes live 9 days before each saturday event which means anyone can book any time so something like your idea just wouldnt happen.

Even if it was up to the pro to set up, it would be based on the times requested for by the fourball.
Having a nice flowing 2 hour slot with a gap before it then having a member contact the pro (or whoever) and asking for that slot with his three 28 H/cap mates is going to either slow the course down, offend the golfer or perhaps, not make a difference whatsoever as every golfer is different. It is ok to assume certain things in golf but not all low handicappers are fast and not all high handicappers are slow.

You do have an awful lot of time on your hands though

But, statistically my statement is TRUE. High handicappers hit more shots than low handicappers. They both - generally - walk the same speed. But the number of shots and the number of OOB balls is what slows things down.

As I said, this is based on averages and can be ignored/overriden at any time. But - statistically - this would speed things up.

If a fourball of 28 handicappers rocks up, I don't see the problem in saying 'guys, we can fit you in here but you might find a couple of groups coming up behind you after a few holes' - it at least alerts them to the fact they should play them through.

The current problem stems from tee-times being booked without any sorting by group size or handicap. I'm not talking about blocking chunks of the day off - I'm just talking about shuffling people about by 15 minutes here or there so you don't have high-handicap big groups teeing off in front of low handicap small groups.

 

[DaveM]

Sorry but I play golf. To get away from the nanny state. Not be told what I can do and when I can do it. Sorry mate but think you need to get a life!

 

[barrybridges]

Double checked and I did change the numbers so something's not quite right.

It's the weighting I've given to larger groups. The more people in the group, the bigger the group reduction based on efficiencies of time getting ready for your shot etc.

Will take a look - but if anyone wants to dive at the data underneath would welcome feedback!

 

[Jonny]

You could do more about slow play with a stick and a rusty nail than you could with a spreadsheet.

 

[barrybridges]

Sorry but I play golf. To get away from the nanny state. Not be told what I can do and when I can do it. Sorry mate but think you need to get a life!

Yes, and I play golf. To play golf! Not to have a 5 hour walk where I hit balls only every now and again.

This isn't about telling you when you can or can't play - you'd still be able to play whenever you like. But what it would do is flag up to you if you might be held up in front, or chased down behind. And it gives the starter the chance to keep adequate separation so everyone has a good day.

The volume of threads on here about slow play quite clearly demonstrates that it's a massive problem. And it really is. If a club can get more people through the course quickly then it's improved revenue and better for everybody.

 

[oakey22]

I want to play at the times i want, not have to be told when to play. I would simply go to another course

 

[barrybridges]

I want to play at the times i want, not have to be told when to play. I would simply go to another course

And you still could! Maybe I didn't make it very clear - the point I'm trying to make is that at least with this system you could have a clear idea of the best times to choose from in the first place.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Sorry Barry, but you have just wasted several hours of your life you will never get back.

 

[Anders]

I think most people know the best time to play if they want millionaires golf - Sunday afternoon. The problem is, most people want to play on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

I don't think it is right to suggest to people when they should play based on their handicap. Remind people to let faster groups through by all means but it's not very welcoming for the Pro or starter to essentially tell a group - you're a bit rubbish so why not go out later so you don't get in peoples way.

I agree that a club needs a good pro or starter to organise groups though. You only book a tee slot at my club, so the pro does not know how many are in the group. I've gone to the club looking for a game in the morning, and because the pro has no idea how many is in each group, I just hang around in the clubhouse or first tee until I can hook up with another group. There have been occasions where I join a 3 ball, only to be chased down by a 2 ball a few holes later. If the pro knew when the 2 balls were going out he could suggest I join up with those.

 

[edgey]

I had a similar problem when i was a member of a local course that employed tee booking times and allowed pay and play. The legend was a round of golf by 3 Japanese women that after 9 holes was 5 hours long already.

If you are a member of a course that allows tee booking by non members on a pay and play basis you are wasting your time worrying about slow play. The priority is profit and I doubt the proprietors actually give two hoots whether members are inconvenienced.

Join a members owned club that does not have booking times and does not allow any old hacker to turn up and chop his way around the course in 5 hours. Since i did I can count the number of slow play problems (other than seniors treating their 4 ball as a route march lol) on one hand.

 

[CliveW]

I cannot open your spreadsheet, so can't comment on your particular formula, but what happens in a group with both high and low handicaps? I regularly play in a fourball with one player off scratch, another off three, one off fourteen and one off twenty. We all get around in the same time and nobody holds another in the group up. If anything, the two low handicappers take longer in lining up putts, shots etc!
What I do see when I occasionally get held up, is players taking excessive number of practice swings, standing admiring their shots and not being ready to play as soon as it is their turn, and leaving bags in front of greens whilst putting. No spreadsheet is going to solve those problems!

 

[Anders]

The best solution to slow play is a starter who makes sure people go off at their allotted time, with sensible gaps, and not as soon as the group in front are out of range. If you start off on someone's heels it's 50/50 that you will get held up - just depends on which group hits a wayward shot first.

 

[richart]

Marshalls with cattle prods is the only answer.

Start at the top and get Pros to play rounds in no more than four hours. They managed it in the 60's and 70's, and then amateurs will stop copying Pros taking for ever to hit a shot, or line up a putt. When I started playing a pre shot routine was a quick half swing swish and then hit the ball. Now I play with people that take for ever just to get in position to smack it in the trees.

Golf is all about hitting a ball, walking after it and hitting it again. If I wanted to spend my time waiting I would hang around bus stops and train stations. Rant over.