Your feedback needed - a solution to slow play?

[JustOne]

Barry, you practically wrote the correct answer yourself already, I've adjusted it everso slightly...

"If a fourball of ANY HANDICAP rocks up, I don't see the problem in saying 'guys, we can fit you in here but you might find a couple of groups coming up behind you after a few holes' - it at least alerts them to the fact they should play them through."

Do this and we're all round pretty quickly - simples!

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I agree with the last 2 posts. (Before Just One's)

A decent gap between groups, with a starter and course marshalls to keep things ticking over

But the most important thing is a question of etiquette in being aware of other groups on the course who are playing faster than you, and letting them through at the first opportunity.

We have had several instances where a 4 ball are actually playing at reasonable 4 ball pace, blissfully ignorant that our 2 ball is waiting at every shot. This is the crux of the problem.

It doesnt matter how you book them in or what spreadsheet formulae you try, if they aint marshalled, it isnt going to work

Fragger

 

[Junior]

I cannot open your spreadsheet, so can't comment on your particular formula, but what happens in a group with both high and low handicaps? I regularly play in a fourball with one player off scratch, another off three, one off fourteen and one off twenty. We all get around in the same time and nobody holds another in the group up. If anything, the two low handicappers take longer in lining up putts, shots etc!
What I do see when I occasionally get held up, is players taking excessive number of practice swings, standing admiring their shots and not being ready to play as soon as it is their turn, and leaving bags in front of greens whilst putting. No spreadsheet is going to solve those problems!

I see what you are trying to do and I commend you for trying to find a solution to one of the worst problems within our wonderful game. However, I dont think it will work using your suggestion.

CliveW is right with what he say's above. The one way to stop slow play is to learn a level of etiquette when you take up the game, be it as a junior, or an adult who is taking up the game later in life once the footy/rugby/cricket days are gone. It's the simple things that will help speed up play,

- Just be ready to play when its your turn,
- mark your card at an appropriate point in time, not on the green while everyone else is waiting on the next tee
- 5 minutes to look for your ball, not 10,
- small markers on the 6th, 12th holes stating how long you should have taken to that point, so you know whether you need to speed up.
- Hit a provisional if you think your ball will be lost
- If you lose a hole on the group in front, let the group behind through

I dont rush around the course so I can brag about how my 3 ball only took 3 hours, but I hate waiting on every shot and 5 and a half hour rounds

 

[coolhand]

Barry - I think you premise is sound but the key is in intelligently managing the gap between groups.

So what the system needs to do is look at the expected playing speed of existing bookings and allocate the next tee slots appropriately.

 

[barrybridges]

I don't disagree with you - but I'm not entirely sure that 'slow play' is genuinely caused by the issues you mention. I totally agree that there are people in the world who mark their cards whilst on the green, or who put their carts in a location that delays them moving to the next hole, but every time I've been held up it wasn't by that sort of behaviour.

In my view, I'm normally held up by:

People in front who can't hit the ball for toffee. I don't mean 'bad' players, but particularly very old players who are using golf as a hobby to stretch their legs. The ones who don't actually take a proper swing, but who duff the ball 50 - 100 yards on each shot. To be fair, these people also tend to drop out half way round.

People giving 'lessons' to a friend on the course, where that friend has never played before. It's particularly bad at Godstone which is near me: you'll often have a husband teaching his wife, or a dad taking his son round. I get that we all have to start somewhere, but it's frustrating.

The key thing is that a lot of these delays take place not halfway through a round, but on the very first tee, which is where my solution would help.

Other things I've been thinking about:

Courses could place visible markers at the 275 yards point (or at a point we can debate), so that when you're standing at the tee you know when to drive off. One thing that slows play down is groups waiting because they think they might reach the group in front, when it's clear that they'd have to play a blinder of a drive to even come close. The guidance should be: if the group in front has gone past the markers, feel free to tee off and don't wait.

Time signages on the course, to cajole people into playing faster. Even something simply like: "is there a group behind you? If so, should you play them through?". Simply making it public can help.

Avoiding blind shots - or minimising delays because of it.

Technology could also help. One thing I thought about was whether a device might exist so that whenever the pin is taken out of the hole it is signalled on the tee box (or somehow). Lots of people on driveable par 4s wait, especially if they can't see the flag behind the brow of a mound.

Banning single players and forcing them to join forces.

For me though, the biggest impact is in structured tee times - or at least offering 'helpful guidance' if you express you want a quick round. The number of times I've turned up at Godstone as a two-ball to find myself stuck in front of a fourball where two people have never played before- I've lost count.

 

[Oddsocks]

for me there are a few simple things that could make play better for everyone.

1) marshalls making sure groups keep pace or ensure they let through quicker groups

2) new players to the sport being educated on tips to make play quicker
ie: when the correct time to make a card is.. (not standing on teh edge of the green)
being ready to putt when its your turn
being ready to play when its your turn
actually watching where you ball goes

 

[CMAC]

Barry, unfortunately you are trying to enforce precision and order on something that has a zillion variables.

The theory is sound but your spreadsheet is missing the formula for chaos theorem therefore will always fail.

Bravo for trying a different approach.

I'm in agreement that a good starter and proactive energetic marshals ensures a good round by all.

 

[JustOne]

I think you're missing the point, it doesn't matter if someone is slow/teach the wife/marking their card in the wrong place etc etc as long as they don't hold up the group behind.

One of the biggest problems is that there's a rule that says don't lose a hole, if you haven't then does that mean you shouldn't let through the group behind you that caught you up 20 minutes ago and have waited on every shot?????

Courses let people out too quickly. If you're teeing off on the 1st when the group ahead are just out of driver range then that's TOO CLOSE and will naturally lead to problems, in theory you should at least wait until they've left the GREEN! Doesn't work in reality though... a starter and/or a decent marshal is the ONLY answer in my opinion. He can quite easily warn people that they have someone catching them up, advise people about bad practices, keep an eye on those pesky pitchmarks left by the seniors and even empty bins/collect litter..... sell drinks/snacks???

 

[SocketRocket]

Often better players take more time as they spend more time considering the shot, especially on the greens. just look at the crazy times tour comps take.

Does your spread sheet have any factors for female groups? Groups of women slow down play on my course more than any other factor. They crawl around, chatting to each other. They all walk from ball to ball rather than moving straight to their individual ones, this creates more chatting time for them. Letting a faster group through is not in their conciousness. We have around 500 men and 100 women, you really would think it was the other way round.

 

[beggsy]

Wont make a blind bit of difference at any course im afraid for instance in our group there is regulary 12-16 each week and if the spread sheet gave us all different times we wouldnt play an i can only play before 8am anyway so no good for me SORRY IM OUT

 

[Anders]

I've never played Godstone so
Maybe completely wrong, but it sounds like your problems are related to the type of course it is. I have a pay and play near me which is known as a stomping ground for learners and mates out on a jolly. That's fine, everyone needs to be catered for, you just need to find a course that is frequented by better golfers

 

[Oddsocks]

anders is right, public P&P courses seem to be worse for slow play. when playing members courses the problems of slow play are never as bad as P&P courses,

 

[Andy]

Have you tried masterbation? Its much more fun !!

 

[Slicer30]

The problem with "letting people through" is that everyone differs as to how and when it should be done.

Surely clubs could marking out spots on the course that are best for letting the group behind through. Nothing worse that having a group up your rear, let them through and the group behind are waiting also. You get to the point where you feel like it'd be best to just walk off and leave everyone to it. Golfers are the most honest I know, calling penalties on themselves etc but when it comes to slow play no-one beleives its their fault.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Part of it is in arranging for tee times to be correctly assigned. I get so angry whenever I play at Godstone and turn up with my playing partner to find that I have several sets of fourballs ahead of me and a single behind us. It makes no sense.

Why don't you invite the single who is behind you to join up with you?

.

 

[HRC99]

I don't think it works at all. I don't think that handicap affects it greatly - some of the slowest players at our place are in the 8-12 range.

For me there are two ways to go: marshalling and logging gaps between groups.

If you can't/won't have a marshal, then set benchmarks and start logging the time that people come in after the group in front. Then start banning players from taking up prime tee times if they come in "x" times in a time greater than "y" minutes after the group in front.

If people are under pressure to lose their regular slot, they might get bloody move on.

At my place, if two people got told they couldn't start until after 9:30am, then the rest of the field would get round at least 15-20 quicker every Saturday & Sunday.

 

[TheJezster]

Have you tried masterbation? Its much more fun !!

This is the kind of quote i like! :-D

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sorry Barry but I'm out.

If the problem is always that bad at Godstone then I guess you have to ask why you go there if you know it'll be a 5 hour round everytime. They aren't going to change. I understand some of the grustrations (dads teaching kids etc) but in my experience a quiet and polite word at the appropriate time usually gets you through.

Pay and plays will always draw a more diverse golfing population and you need to make allowances for that. For many it is the only courses accessible to them. They have as much right to play, even the so called old codgers hitting it 100 yards and in your words "only out to stretch their legs"

I admire your Excel skills but a waste of time

 

[SocketRocket]

I have mentioned this before so sorry for repeating it but it is a good system. At my club we dont have tee times, we have starting holes for different group sizes that change through the day.

For example:
Between 8:15 am and 10:am - two or one balls from the first tee. Four or three balls from the 9th or 12th.

10 am to 12:30 pm - four balls from the 1st. Two balls from 9th and 12th. and so on.

This spreads out playing groups of similar sizes over the course. OK, it is possible to get two and four balls meeting half way round but it works quite well.

 

[Scouser]

If you're teeing off on the 1st when the group ahead are just out of driver range then that's TOO CLOSE and will naturally lead to problems, in theory you should at least wait until they've left the GREEN!

I always thought this was ok......or at least they had played their second shot or were on the green (depending on length of hole)

Would every one advocate waiting till the first hole is completely clear??