Would you be in favour of your committee imposing penalties for slow play?

[Slab]

This is one of those questions that seems simple but is much bigger than it reads

The only way I'd go along with penalties for players is if the club also penalised itself for instances where it contributes (even drives) slow play i.e allowing first cut of rough to be long enough to regularly lose balls, ridiculous pin placements on very busy days, cramming tee-off times too close together. I also think they'd need to factor in course conditions when establishing what duration is slow play for any given day

Edit to add, I usually go round in 3:20 for a two ball & don't consider that slow. I just feel the cause of slow play is too often only directed at players while the club gets off/see's itself as blameless

 

[ivan]

i am relatively new to this game but have been told that some clubs ban 4 ball groups to avoid slow play - is this true and, if so, does it work? if it does, it seems a very simple (part?) answer to the problem.

also, as has been said, this is game most of us play for fun/as a hobby - as one of the "higher handicappers" often mentioned, it is inevitable that people like me will not be as quick as those that hit straight and long most of the time. think everyone should remember that, once (maybe long ago) they were in the same boat.

2nd also, i am a senior and often get frustrated with other seniors i play with who are very slow because of age/infirmities - perhaps they should be granted free use of buggies to get them around quicker!

 

[Slab]

Ivan I reckon those clubs that ban groups of 4, may do so out of desperation, just clutching at straws really using the we must do something, this is something, so we must do that approach to problem solving

Also its a very loose correlation between a players h/cap & speed of play, everything else has to be equal for this to really mean anything as a reason

The first thing that strikes me on this topic is that everywhere I see people talk about slow play when what they actually moan about is a long round!

Seems difficult to find out whether slow play actually equals long round & I'd have thought that would be job 1 (or more accurately how much does slow play contribute to a long round) it may be easier to deal with the other contributors

Most folks seem to base slow play on what they do, so if I don't take a practice swing then it follows that everyone who does is a slow player (which is of course ridiculous)

Do players book a tee time and factor 3.30/3.45 for a round before planning the rest of their day? if so what duration do they add becasue its raining? or because prefered lies are in operation? or because tee times are 8 minutes apart when they should be 11? or becasue they are a two ball & they physically can't play a round in 3.10 when other groups are also on the course (even if let through)

Does anyone actually play a round to the R&A duration guidlines unless the course is near empty, in good condition & with decent weather, with no comps?

 

[Oddsocks]

yup, and i would also like to see penalties for not letting people through

 

[richart]

No, we just sort out slow players behind the clubhouse.

 

[sev112]

No, we just sort out slow players behind the clubhouse.

Is that what teh squeeeeling was when i drove past on Saturday afternoon ?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

How do you impose penalties on those not in the comp? We have a group that goes out early every Saturday and they are always slow and often the cause of slow play but don't often play the comps

 

[fundy]

How do you impose penalties on those not in the comp? We have a group that goes out early every Saturday and they are always slow and often the cause of slow play but don't often play the comps

Dont allow them to go out ahead of the comp seems the brutally obvious answer

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Doesn't stop them being slow every other week though does it?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Dont allow them to go out ahead of the comp seems the brutally obvious answer

How do you stop them then? We don't operate booked times and the rules say you can go out up to 30 minutes in front of the first tee time. Its the same groups every week irrespective of whether there is a comp or not. I don't want to lose the facility to roll up in favour of booking times as that is one of the best things about the club, the ability to go out when you want.

The issue with this group is there blatant ingorance. They've been told directly that they are holding people up and just disregard it. Thick skinned doesn't touch it. The committee are reluctant to get involved to be honest these guys are the epitomy of car park golf. Rarely in the clubhouse after where they could be taken to task and if they do brave it they stop for a half all round and go. They never play comps and to my mind do nothing to help themselves

 

[fundy]

If your club dont close the tee ahead of medals then you need the committee to step in and stop this. If they arent prepared to then you either have to put up with it or get someone on the committee who will put a stop to it - not easy I know but you often need people who make themselves unpopular on committees

 

[fundy]

A big issue for me is very few clubs actually have any policy about slow play - if they put it down in writing and make it apparent to all golfers then there would be far fewer issues

 

[SGC001]

I'm suprised clubs allow players not in the competition out ahead of the competition on competition mornings. As was said make it a club rule that on competition morning it is for competitions only, perfectly acceptable with equality legislation.

Written rules and penalties for slow play in competition is what I'm on about, not just adhoc penalties; but published ones so everyone knows what is expected.

One of the clubs I've mentioned ustiles 3 balls for the 1st hour or so of play for medal competitions, i don't hinmk it's desperation they just seem willing to tackle the issue slow play. The members asked for this issue to be addressed as 1 or 2 players were spoiling the game of 60 or 70.

A good number of votes so far and many different views.

I find it interesting that the rules allow a club to take action, but some people think it's innapropriate in a club competition. Most etiquette is based on consideration for other players, so is keeping up with play or letting people through if you can't (the local rules you can impose allow teeth to back up this consideration). If you can't keep up with play and won't let people through I'm in favour of sanctions; if you want to play slowly do so, but not at the expense of spoiling the game the rest of the field.

It doesn't have to be score penalties, at least one who's voted no have said back of the field is an acceptable option and said it's ok if they let players through and are out earlier. What if they won't let players through (only etiquette nto a rule) and won't play at the back of the field. Then I think rules are needed if they won't book there and are genuinely holding other players up on a regular basis they need to be made to and you can do this within the rules without breaking equality laws.

 

[CallawayKid]

I voted no as if we eradicated slow play, what would we all moan about on here

I usually have/choose to go off last as Comp. Sec. and the pace can be trying sometimes but it's a day playing golf and I'm not in the office. If there's slow play ahead I can adjust my game to fit and take a little more time over my shots.

CK

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Our place doesn't allow 4 balls in medals, I presume to speed up play.

Again, i'm not for penalties for slow play in the amateur game. If you let faster players through you can play at whatever pace you damn well like.

 

[Slab]

Perhaps so few clubs have a written policy to address it as it could be seen as unfair.

For a game whose foundation is based on players governing their own play/penalties/refereeing etc then surely the R&A simply have to write a rule for pace of play and slow players/groups would penalise themselves!

Moreover a normally fast player in a slow group would accept penalties to their own score with similar good grace

 

[Slab]

No player is going to accept a penalty for slow play while they are in a position to point the finger of blame at the club for causing slow play, so until the club have done all of the points below (paste from R&A website) then players will have an ‘out’ if the club try to penalise them

How administrators can minimise round times:

• Do not overload the course by using short starting intervals. When play is in two- balls, at least eight minutes should be allowed between groups and in three or four balls, at least 10 minutes should be given.
• If possible, incorporate starter’s gaps throughout the course of the day to allow for clearance of any delays that have arisen.
• Encourage players to play from tees that suit their ability and ask the starter to guide the players in this respect before the round.
• The rough for daily play should be of such a length so as to avoid numerous lost balls.
• Hole locations for daily play should not be too severe and neither should the green speeds.

Advise players of the time that should be taken to play the course and remind them of their obligations with regards to pace of play, i.e. keep up with the group in front and allow quicker groups to pass through.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

I have no problem with players taking thier time over shots etc as this to me isn't slow play. However, they can be going through the pre-shot routine whilst waiting for the other players to play their shot. If your reading a putt from several angles then do it while the others are putting. If your on the right hand side of the fairway dont walk up the left hand side with your playing partner, wait for him to play his shot and then go looking for your ball. Go and look while he is playing his shot. Simple things can speed up play without anyone having to rush a shot.

 

[Matty]

I've voted no but not because I agree with slow play or that it should be allowed. I voted now because there is never going to be a viable way on the majority of courses to enforce any rule against slow players.

Who said they were slow? A group behind? Was there a slow group in front? Was the course just very busy and no-one and anywhere to go?

You'd need a marshall on every third hole to speed players through and that simply isn't going to happen.

I don't know what the answer is, penalties of some type fit nicely with the current rules but seriously, how are they going to be applied in a workable manner?

 

[Slab]

No idea how to do a thread with a Poll (being a newbie) so perhaps the OP (SGC001 or someone else) could create one to poll forumers to see if their course scorecard has a cumulative maximum time listed alongside against each hole on the scorecard?

Would seem to be a way of proving that a course has at least given the issue some thought and is prepared to state what max time is acceptable, under daily conditions, at any point of the course. e.g max time thru 7th = 1:26