Maximum Handicap Vs Pace of Play

[stueyginger]

Now I appreciate some lower handicappers can be irritatingly annoying on the golf course, thinking their playing every round at the masters and taking wayyyy more time than required over each shot

I understand that the sport is somewhat resurging and trying to be more 'open' to beginners, new members and the like.

But........ I saw that a 50 odd handicapper won a trophy at a local club over the weekend, shooting a gross score of 116 that included a 10 on the first hole..................it's no wonder several members walked off after 7 holes having already clocked 2hr 40mins for their round so far

My questions to the forum would be:
With the new handicap system in place, has maintaining pace of play been thrown out the window in favour of welcoming beginners to the game and letting them take as long as they want to complete a round?
I understand golf clubs may be wanting money in for fee's etc but as a junior we had to consistently score 90-100 before we were allowed to compete in medals for the sake of pace of play - is this something that could be adopted to help beginners rather than let them loose on a course shooting 110+ and taking 6hrs?

 

[RichA]

Myself and most of the guys I play with are new to club membership and generally score inside the wide 90-110 range. The only golfers we generally need to invite through are solos. We are often waiting behind "proper golfers".
I think it's more about the club and the particular individuals than the handicap or skill level.

 

[wjemather]

Now I appreciate some lower handicappers can be irritatingly annoying on the golf course, thinking their playing every round at the masters and taking wayyyy more time than required over each shot

I understand that the sport is somewhat resurging and trying to be more 'open' to beginners, new members and the like.

But........ I saw that a 50 odd handicapper won a trophy at a local club over the weekend, shooting a gross score of 116 that included a 10 on the first hole..................it's no wonder several members walked off after 7 holes having already clocked 2hr 40mins for their round so far

My questions to the forum would be:
With the new handicap system in place, has maintaining pace of play been thrown out the window in favour of welcoming beginners to the game and letting them take as long as they want to complete a round?
I understand golf clubs may be wanting money in for fee's etc but as a junior we had to consistently score 90-100 before we were allowed to compete in medals for the sake of pace of play - is this something that could be adopted to help beginners rather than let them loose on a course shooting 110+ and taking 6hrs?

Clubs should be encouraging formats of play that are appropriate to the handicaps of the players, which in turn helps pace of play by not requiring holing out for big numbers on every hole. For example most of our competitions are Stableford and we have handicap limits on Medals (HI 28.0).

 

[RichA]

Discouraging high handicappers like me (and possibly some of the mids) from using drivers would speed things up. A couple of hybrid/iron shots go further and rarely result in 3 off the tee and 3 minutes each looking for the first ball in the long grass.
Maybe 18+ handicappers could be encouraged to use forward tees without stigma - adjusting their handicaps for the competition.

 

[Orikoru]

I personally think the handicap upper limit should have been set at 36. I feel that two shots per hole is plenty and a pretty good starting point to aim for if you're a beginner. By setting it at 54, then yes it's allowing for more shots, particularly in Stableford comps where you're picking up once you can't score, so of course, the rounds will take longer with more shots being taken. 36 would have been a more than ample starting point, particularly as beginners tend to improve quite quickly if they stick with it, so it usually wouldn't take too long for someone to reach 36 anyway.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

If I was the owner of a Golf Course, I would only open it to members who can get round in under 3 hours as a four ball, It would be so popular that members would travel hours to play there

 

[Swango1980]

We usually have 3 balls in our competitions, although the opening comp of the year was 4 balls. This led to quite long rounds. However, the way I looked at it, any time a player has a shot, every other player in that group cannot be playing a shot at the same time (usually). So, each other person in that group will at least need to stop and watch a person play their shot. They will probably also need to stop and wait for practice swings and so on in many cases, depending on where they are in relation to the other player. So, to put that into perspective, how long would it be to sit through a youTube video and watch every single shot of a player on an 18-hole round, and featuring a fair number of practice swings and so on? Quite some time, even if that player was a scratch player and having 70 shots. Technically longer if the player is a high handicapper and having 100+ shots. Not to mention any time spent looking for their golf balls.

But, you are right, some low handicappers are incredibly slow as well, as their routine can take ages.

We've had 3 comps since return, and each one has been dominated by high handicappers (not just the winners, but the top places). In the last comp (board comp) the winner shot a nett 64 with a 9 on the card, 1 triple and 5 doubles. The guy who came second, nett 67, had an 11, a 9, an 8 and a 7 on the card. We've already had a lot of lower handicappers moan about the new system, including the competition secretary. Perhaps it just needs some time to settle down. I also think golf has probably had a large influx of new members since last year, when release of lockdowns resulted in many people rushing out to do something new, just to get out of the house. So, bound to be quite a few high handicappers. Once guy submitted his first card for handicap last week, shooting a gross 140.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I've witnessed slow play from all levels of golfer. But I can accept a scratch player taking their time over 70 shots more than I can a 28 handicapper do the same over 110 shots.

HC limit for comps should be set at 18. If your HC is above that then you play stableford from an appropriate forward tee off 18.

There should be a limit of 7 clubs. Nothing worse than watching someone take forever to decide which cluns they will duff 10 yards.

Laser rangefinders should be banned for anyone above a 5HC. Everyone I've played with who has used one couldn't tell me how far they hit each club within +- 10 yards. Never mind actually hit the distance the rangefinder gives. The most infuriating thing in golf is watching someone laser a pin, take an age over club selection, fat their shot 10 yards than start the process all over again.

Then I would limit the number of balls allowed to be used by a player in a given round. Say, to 4. Lose them all and you are done. Finding replacements don't count towards your allocation.

Maybe also limit people to only look for their own ball. Yes this will probably introduce an element of cheating. But playing partners should be responsible for knowing what clearly marked ball the player who's card they are marking is playing.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've witnessed slow play from all levels of golfer. But I can accept a scratch player taking their time over 70 shots more than I can a 28 handicapper do the same over 110 shots.

HC limit for comps should be set at 18. If your HC is above that then you play stableford from an appropriate forward tee off 18.

There should be a limit of 7 clubs. Nothing worse than watching someone take forever to decide which cluns they will duff 10 yards.

Laser rangefinders should be banned for anyone above a 5HC. Everyone I've played with who has used one couldn't tell me how far they hit each club within +- 10 yards. Never mind actually hit the distance the rangefinder gives. The most infuriating thing in golf is watching someone laser a pin, take an age over club selection, fat their shot 10 yards than start the process all over again.

Then I would limit the number of balls allowed to be used by a player in a given round. Say, to 4. Lose them all and you are done. Finding replacements don't count towards your allocation.

Maybe also limit people to only look for their own ball. Yes this will probably introduce an element of cheating. But playing partners should be responsible for knowing what clearly marked ball the player who's card they are marking is playing.

Can a club run with only 10 members?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Can a club run with only 10 members?

There might attract more new members if they put an end to 4+ hour rounds.

Build it, and they will come!

 

[Pathetic Shark]

My previous club had a 28-handicap Club President who played more like a 50 handicapper who would hole out every time in every comp and drove people behind him mental. But nothing ever got done about it. It was beyond embarrassing.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Discouraging high handicappers like me (and possibly some of the mids) from using drivers would speed things up. A couple of hybrid/iron shots go further and rarely result in 3 off the tee and 3 minutes each looking for the first ball in the long grass.
Maybe 18+ handicappers could be encouraged to use forward tees without stigma - adjusting their handicaps for the competition.

I don't know why more clubs don't use the forward tees as an option - perhaps they may now with the new handicap system. Quite often the reds are different angles as well as distances which would change holes quite a lot taking players out of regular decision making.

 

[howbow88]

I don't know why more clubs don't use the forward tees as an option - perhaps they may now with the new handicap system. Quite often the reds are different angles as well as distances which would change holes quite a lot taking players out of regular decision making.

I find it truly mad that in 2021, red tees are still often called the women's tees. Forgetting political correctness - these should effectively be thought of as the shorter hitters/beginners tees. But by calling them women's tees, blokes who can't hit the ball more than 150 yards wouldn't ever play on them even though they should be.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't know why more clubs don't use the forward tees as an option - perhaps they may now with the new handicap system. Quite often the reds are different angles as well as distances which would change holes quite a lot taking players out of regular decision making.

On the 18th at my club the red tee is about 20-25 yards longer than the yellow and even a fraction longer than the whites. I have no idea why and I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I find it truly mad that in 2021, red tees are still often called the women's tees. Forgetting political correctness - these should effectively be thought of as the shorter hitters/beginners tees. But by calling them women's tees, blokes who can't hit the ball more than 150 yards wouldn't ever play on them even though they should be.

Totally agree with this. When golf re-opened it was the first time I had been to my club since all of the WHS changes. I was quite hopeful things may have changed but the handicap chart by the 1st tee states quite clearly Reds/Ladies Tee . A massive missed opportunity to put this one to bed and move things forward.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

On the 18th at my club the red tee is about 20-25 yards longer than the yellow and even a fraction longer than the whites. I have no idea why and I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else.

I was intrigued by this and so looked up your club. To be fair, the length of the red tee on your 18th is only 277yds so it isn't pushing the hole out of reach for anyone. (277 whites, 250 yellow, 277 reds for anyone interested) It is quite different though, fair point.

 

[Orikoru]

I was intrigued by this and so looked up your club. To be fair, the length of the red tee on your 18th is only 277yds so it isn't pushing the hole out of reach for anyone. (277 whites, 250 yellow, 277 reds for anyone interested) It is quite different though, fair point.

Yeah the red is back with the whites, and with them shifting about sometimes the red is longer. It's pretty unusual and I've not found out why yet. I haven't even played off the whites yet, was hoping to enter first comp this Saturday if I can.

 

[sweaty sock]

Doesnt this just boil down to letting groups through...

 

[Deleted member 29109]

My old club had one red tee behind the others. But it was then played as a par 5 not a par 4 as the white and yellows were.

 

[The Fader]

Golfers that openly admit to being a slow player are as rare as gold plated unicorns.

Slow play is a state of mind and for the most part has nothing to do with handicaps. There are slow scratch golfers and quick hackers. And vice versa.

And I don't think that because you are a low handicap you have more right to take your time. Golf is a sport where we all share a common playing area and nobody has any more rights than any other. Unfortunately the course only moves as quickly as the slowest group. So it needs everyone to embrace playing at a pace that makes the game more enjoyable for the majority. There is a happy medium between those who want to run round and those that wish to saunter. Both are wrong in their own way

Slow play is caused amongst other things by:

Lengthy pre shot routines
Practice swings after you've hit your shot (a real bugbear of mine)
Being happy being just in front of the group behind. You need to be just behind the group in front
Refusal to play ready golf, especially tee honour
Insistence on holing out - even when you can't score
Not knocking in short putts
Chatting whilst stood on tees and greens rather than when you're striding down the fairway
Poor etiquette - not playing provisionals, leaving bags in wrong place etc
Group searches
Not respecting the 3 minute lost ball rule
Watching the pro's on TV and copying them on the green - aimpoint, plumb bobbing, looking at putts from 4 different angles etc
Insufficient spacing on tee sheets. 7 minutes as it is at some places encourages bunching

And many, many more besides

Without wishing to put a specific time on how long a round should take - if every golfer committed to playing each shot just 5 seconds more quickly than usual be it by walking fractionally quicker or eradicating some of the above- in a 4 ball of mid handicap golfers let's say that is c. 350 shots. that would save almost 30 minutes each round.

I think most golfers (apart from the sprinters) would settle for that level of playing time improvement.