Maximum Handicap Vs Pace of Play

[sweaty sock]

Still dont see how slow play effects anyone. Play at whatever speed you want, but if theres space infront of you, and the group behind are in the fairway when your on the green, let the group behind through?!

Similarly, if the group infront dont have any spece infront of them, dont race up behind them to watch them tee off. There's a point, particularly when its busy, that rounds of golf just take time.

Ours is 6500yrds, rated by England Golf a round should take 4 hours and 17 minutes. If I told half the membership that, they would faint, funny how it takes them 4 and a quarter hours to get round mid morning on a saturday though....

 

[jim8flog]

Personally I know many single figures slow players and many mid handicap slow players.

Blaming slow play on high handicappers belongs in the same place as saying all seniors are slow players.

 

[nickjdavis]

Maybe also limit people to only look for their own ball. Yes this will probably introduce an element of cheating. But playing partners should be responsible for knowing what clearly marked ball the player who's card they are marking is playing.

How will this help? I've got a dozen balls in my bag....all of the same make and model and all with identical markings on them, usually have two or three of each number...someone playing with me would never have a clue if I chose to "find" a ball down my trouser leg.

 

[nickjdavis]

I find it truly mad that in 2021, red tees are still often called the women's tees. Forgetting political correctness - these should effectively be thought of as the shorter hitters/beginners tees. But by calling them women's tees, blokes who can't hit the ball more than 150 yards wouldn't ever play on them even though they should be.

It would have been great if all of our sets of tees had been rated for male and female golfers....especially the yellows as we have a number of ladies who like to tee it up with the men in casual rounds.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

It would have been great if all of our sets of tees had been rated for male and female golfers....especially the yellows as we have a number of ladies who like to tee it up with the men in casual rounds.

Never understood why there needs to be different rating for Men & Ladies tees. A 20 handicapper should be a 20 handicapper regardless of gender.

 

[Swango1980]

Never understood why there needs to be different rating for Men & Ladies tees. A 20 handicapper should be a 20 handicapper regardless of gender.

It is an interesting question that I have recently found asking myself. If courses were rated differently for men and women based on their average length, then you could argue why courses were never rated differently for Seniors or Juniors?

 

[rulefan]

Clubs should be encouraging formats of play that are appropriate to the handicaps of the players, which in turn helps pace of play by not requiring holing out for big numbers on every hole. For example most of our competitions are Stableford and we have handicap limits on Medals (HI 28.0).

1) Why not introduce Maximum Score competitions
2) Does that mean that 28+ cappers are not allowed to play, as opposed to enter, medals?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Yeah the red is back with the whites, and with them shifting about sometimes the red is longer. It's pretty unusual and I've not found out why yet. I haven't even played off the whites yet, was hoping to enter first comp this Saturday if I can.

That is because it is a Ladies tee. Red tees are not first and foremost the most forward tee. They are the tee for the Ladies course.
That is the historical fact.
The golf courses were always split into Mens courses and Ladies courses, and red was the colour of Ladies tees.
In almost all cases it was coincidental that the red tees were shorter than the others, but in some, in determining the total length of the women's course, there was occasionally a situation as you have described.
Likely the 277 red tee is a par 4 for Ladies, and further forward fir men it may be a par 3.? Whatever, they( originally) were no doubt courses independent of each other.
Again, -The red tees were not originally meant to be the short tees. They were meant to be the Ladies tees.
I see no need to change this. The lady members play their course, the men play theirs.
Until such time as when there is no distinction between men and women members , that's what they should be known as. When the PC brigade remove the distinction between the sexes( Lord help us?), then they can be the short tees.

 

[wjemather]

1) Why not introduce Maximum Score competitions
2) Does that mean that 28+ cappers are not allowed to play, as opposed to enter, medals?

1) Our intention is to do just that, and replace most medals with Maximum Score. However we are running ClubV1, which doesn't have Maximum Score competition templates at present.
2) Higher handicappers may enter, but must play from an index of 28.0.

 

[Beedee]

1) Our intention is to do just that, and replace most medals with Maximum Score. However we are running ClubV1, which doesn't have Maximum Score competition templates at present.
2) Higher handicappers may enter, but must play from an index of 28.0.

Won't that make the comps non-qualifying for the 28+'s?
Can a comp be a bit of a qualifier? Q for some, non-Q for others in the same comp?
If it is still a qualifier all you'll get is 28+'s taking as many shots as previously, just with no chance of winning. Sounds like a lose-lose situation.

 

[rulefan]

Won't that make the comps non-qualifying for the 28+'s?

The Course Handicap (however high or low) will be used for handicapping purposes. Playing Handicap will be used for competition results purposes. The software sots it out.

 

[clubchamp98]

Biggest thing I see is players not being ready to play.
I have put my headcover on and driver back in the bag ,they havnt even got their club out the bag.
If I say anything it’s “ what’s your hurry”
Handicaps got nothing to do with it,
Slowest player I ever played with was +2.
But a player with a 20 second PSR a 54 is going to take longer than a scratch player just by the amount of shots.

 

[Swango1980]

1) Our intention is to do just that, and replace most medals with Maximum Score. However we are running ClubV1, which doesn't have Maximum Score competition templates at present.
2) Higher handicappers may enter, but must play from an index of 28.0.

What is the purpose of a 28 limit in medals, if those higher than 28 can still play? Is it simply to discourage them from entering, rather than a complete ban?

 

[srixon 1]

I've witnessed slow play from all levels of golfer. But I can accept a scratch player taking their time over 70 shots more than I can a 28 handicapper do the same over 110 shots.

HC limit for comps should be set at 18. If your HC is above that then you play stableford from an appropriate forward tee off 18.

There should be a limit of 7 clubs. Nothing worse than watching someone take forever to decide which cluns they will duff 10 yards.

Laser rangefinders should be banned for anyone above a 5HC. Everyone I've played with who has used one couldn't tell me how far they hit each club within +- 10 yards. Never mind actually hit the distance the rangefinder gives. The most infuriating thing in golf is watching someone laser a pin, take an age over club selection, fat their shot 10 yards than start the process all over again.

Then I would limit the number of balls allowed to be used by a player in a given round. Say, to 4. Lose them all and you are done. Finding replacements don't count towards your allocation.

Maybe also limit people to only look for their own ball. Yes this will probably introduce an element of cheating. But playing partners should be responsible for knowing what clearly marked ball the player who's card they are marking is playing.

I’ll have whatever you’ve been drinking.

 

[rulefan]

What is the purpose of a 28 limit in medals, if those higher than 28 can still play? Is it simply to discourage them from entering, rather than a complete ban?

They don't want a high capper winning. Of course many don't think they are real golfers but they'll take their subs money..

 

[Beedee]

The Course Handicap (however high or low) will be used for handicapping purposes. Playing Handicap will be used for competition results purposes. The software sots it out.

That's what I thought.

I'm assuming the reason for the 28 limit is to speed up play and not to protect the egos of the low handicappers. If the real Index is used to calculate the CH for handicap purposes (as it should be) then the high handicapper will have to take as many shots as they have to take. This means no increase in pace of play. So all that happens is the round is as slow as it was going to be (a "lose" for the field), and the high handicapper has no chance of winning (a "lose" for the player).

 

[wjemather]

What is the purpose of a 28 limit in medals, if those higher than 28 can still play? Is it simply to discourage them from entering, rather than a complete ban?

Pretty much, but still allows for player choice.

 

[wjemather]

They don't want a high capper winning. Of course many don't think they are real golfers but they'll take their subs money..

I don't know how other clubs run their comps, but ours are split into handicap divisions, so the lows, mids and highs aren't competing against each other.

 

[howbow88]

Handicaps got nothing to do with it,
Slowest player I ever played with was +2.
But a player with a 20 second PSR a 54 is going to take longer than a scratch player just by the amount of shots.

But then handicap does have something to do with it...?

I've started putting with a line on my ball. I hate how much time it takes to get right, but I am now putting so much better than before. Eg I played 9 the other night and had only 13 putts, whereas before I would have been very happy with 15. It is a fine line between taking too long and rushing, but then adding shots to the score if you don't feel right...

But you're bang on about other things that all of us can control - being ready for your shot, putting your bag in the right place, taking your 9-iron AND putter with you when chipping so you don't have to go back to your bag again, etc.

And something that gets my goat - players not hitting provisionals in a medal, when the shot they've just hit is 'probably alright'... If you have any doubt, hit another. It takes 30 seconds max, but will probably save 5 minutes if you don't find your first ball and have to walk back.

 

[bobmac]

Club comps should have 3 time divisions.
1st division out first..... under 3 1/2 hours
2nd division out next......3 1/2 - 4 1/2 hours
3rd Division out last....over 4 1/2 hours

Sprinters shoot off into the distance (happy)
Medium group not held up (happy)
Slow group take their time (happy).

Problems only occur when slow and fast players are mixed up.

My biggest gripe is when quick players tell slow players to hurry up.