Posting Only Good Scores

[D-S]

I actually suggested this at the WHS Update workshop earlier this year.
The EG presenter said it would be difficult because the sunset is at different times throughout the UK, getting later as you move northwards, e.g. today it is 21:04 in Reading and 21:28 in Carlisle.

Yes, we got the same reply.
Pretty poor excuse really as the position of the club is known (even the user of the App is geo located so as to be able to create a scorecard) so therefore sunset times are known for that point. Hardly beyond the wit of App developers to join these two dots.
It would save work for volunteers and, with the correct error message, help educate the App user as to their responsibilities.
Having to run the report, check the time stamps and contact the ‘miscreants’ is just more work for diligent committees and something else that will not be done by those without the time, knowledge or inclination.

 

[Backache]

How late can you play though?
I'm in the North of Scotland just now and sunset was apparently Half an hour ago, but I've played in worse light than this and it's a little overcast.

 

[Springveldt]

I actually suggested this at the WHS Update workshop earlier this year.
The EG presenter said it would be difficult because the sunset is at different times throughout the UK, getting later as you move northwards, e.g. today it is 21:04 in Reading and 21:28 in Carlisle.

This is complete nonsense. You know the club location (if the user restricts geolocation for the app) and can easily get the sunset time for that day.

Sounds like they just didn’t want to pay for the development time or are happy for people to manipulate their handicaps.

 

[Swango1980]

Sure, if players manage to only submit their good scores to get a lower handicap, from a competitive singles point of view, they are only harming themselves.

But, if such things were acceptable, to get a lower handicap, then why not just skip that process entirely. Why not have a system we can just tell the handicap sec to reduce our handicap to scratch, or whatever other low number we desire?

Because it's silly. I know a guy that is able to scrap all his poor rounds, vanity handicapper off about 20. He might see nothing wrong with it. But, I really don't want to play team comps with him, simply from a competitive point of view. In that format, he isn't just cheating himself, but everyone on the team.

 

[Slab]

This is complete nonsense. You know the club location (if the user restricts geolocation for the app) and can easily get the sunset time for that day.

Sounds like they just didn’t want to pay for the development time or are happy for people to manipulate their handicaps.

I guess maybe they think that’d just be a sticky plaster solution but one where the plaster isn’t actually sticky i.e spent the time/effort/resource building the sunset fix but it only effectively works for a few days before folk cotton on and just enter scores before say 7pm

 

[irip]

The club I was previously at there was a member who struggled in every comp but as soon as he saw his handicap increase to 19 would mysteriously appear with a card from another course with a great score and insist the handicap secretary put it into the system and would be cut back to around 16.
He would also moan constantly that he didn’t get picked for any club matches.
The problem was none of the members wanted to turn up at a nice away course and get paired with him as you knew you would be playing on your own against another pair and probably get a walloping.
I know one of his friends tried to talk to him about it but he wouldn’t listen so it became a never ending circle, I actually felt sorry for the guy as he was good company and put his name down for every match but never got picked.

 

[Orikoru]

Sure, if players manage to only submit their good scores to get a lower handicap, from a competitive singles point of view, they are only harming themselves.

But, if such things were acceptable, to get a lower handicap, then why not just skip that process entirely. Why not have a system we can just tell the handicap sec to reduce our handicap to scratch, or whatever other low number we desire?

Because it's silly. I know a guy that is able to scrap all his poor rounds, vanity handicapper off about 20. He might see nothing wrong with it. But, I really don't want to play team comps with him, simply from a competitive point of view. In that format, he isn't just cheating himself, but everyone on the team.

I mean it's not quite the same. Usually these people will in fact shoot the good scores, it's just that there are no bad scores on the record to balance them out. They'll say they can and have played to that level - which is true in a way, but they just don't do it very often. For someone who uses the system correctly, our handicaps will be beatable if we play well. For someone who's only putting their best scores in after the rounds - their handicaps will only just be attainable if they play very well.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

As long as you register the round beforehand I don't see a problem with just entering all your scores after you finish if you wanted to. I actually enter mine after each hole, I also add whoever I'm playing with to the scorecard and enter their score as well. If the other player is marking their card as they go along it will give you a warning if your scores don't match.

In a recent 4 man team comp the card holder for one team is notorious for poor counting. After the match, sat outside, he "verified" the card with the team. This led to over an hour of dicussion as to the actual score on every hole. The card became illegible through alterations and rubbing out. Several people passing saw the card and commented loudly. He wrote out a new card and they were in the prize money.

 

[Swango1980]

I mean it's not quite the same. Usually these people will in fact shoot the good scores, it's just that there are no bad scores on the record to balance them out. They'll say they can and have played to that level - which is true in a way, but they just don't do it very often. For some who uses the system correctly, our handicaps will be beatable if we play well. For someone who's only putting their best scores in after the rounds - their handicaps will only just be attainable if they play very well.

I was very much being extreme to make the point. But, our best rounds are generally significantly better than the average rounds we submit.

I'm 10.1, but if I only had to submit my best rounds, I could be around 5 or 6. My very best rounds could be around 3 or 4. Obviously, once I cheat myself down to a handicap of 5 or 6, things become more and more problematic. Because even my best rounds may struggle to make my Top 8 (as I've no bad scores to lose), I'll start to lose some of my Top 8 and maybe creep up again at times. So, if I was that desperate to keep a low handicap, I'd probably be more and more reluctant to hand in any scores, for fear of losing Top 8 scores.

I always find it quite sad when golfers feel the need to get their handicap low in this manner. Why do they do it? Because they can show off to other golfers about how low they are? Meanwhile, most other golfers they know just say behind their back "Joe Bloggs has a false handicap, and he is nowhere near as good as his handicap suggests".

 

[wjemather]

You’d be surprised (or maybe not) at how many scorecards are created after 21.00.

Actually the App is very poor to allow a card to be created less than 2 hours before sunset.

If the App did this and had an error message on the App reminding anyone who does so of their responsibilities it would be a great help to diligent handicap committees. Another suggestion that has fallen on deaf ears at EG.

Sunset isn't a particularly good benchmark as playable light (usually) extends long after sunset and varies significantly from day to day; it's also certainly possible to play 9 holes in under an hour and 18 holes in under 2 hours.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You’d be surprised (or maybe not) at how many scorecards are created after 21.00.

Actually the App is very poor to allow a card to be created less than 2 hours before sunset.

If the App did this and had an error message on the App reminding anyone who does so of their responsibilities it would be a great help to diligent handicap committees. Another suggestion that has fallen on deaf ears at EG.

You can still play after sunset if the light is good enough - something I have explained and shown to the GM

Even when the sunset time passes there is still light to be able to play during the summer nights

 

[D-S]

Sunset isn't a particularly good benchmark as playable light (usually) extends long after sunset and varies significantly from day to day; it's also certainly possible to play 9 holes in under an hour and 18 holes in under 2 hours.

OK just make the cut off time for creating scorecards sunset, I am not sure many can play 18 holes post sunset, you could even set 9 holes at sunset plus 30 minutes.
This would still make the job of the handicap committee slightly easier (runinning the report, deleting scores, chasing players) and at the same time educate (via error message) some players that they need to pre+register, not post register.