World Handicap System (WHS)

jim8flog

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How is a player penalised if they NR (with less than 10 holes scored) if it doesn't count for handicap purposes? Assume it still goes in the record as 1 of the last 20? What if someone has a large number of NRs in the record without holes scored?


there is no 'penalty' it simply does not get accepted for handicap purposes.

In your example the Handicap Committee should investigate why a player is submitting a lot of NRs e.g is it deliberate to protect a handicap.
 

jim8flog

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What status code do they show in the CDH ?
I am seeing this with other players.

As already said my assumption is that all rounds that have been converted have been converted using the WHS rules.

I.e. Any score with less than 10 hole scores recorded is not acceptable for handicap purposes.

It is hard for me to see because it is something I never do.
 

abjectplop

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there is no 'penalty' it simply does not get accepted for handicap purposes.

In your example the Handicap Committee should investigate why a player is submitting a lot of NRs e.g is it deliberate to protect a handicap.

Find that crazy....routinely see guys just punching in 0s for every hole at the moment, probably for vanity reasons. At least under the current system they get their 0.1 like everyone else who misses buffer.
 

jim8flog

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Find that crazy....routinely see guys just punching in 0s for every hole at the moment,.

And that is something we have been trying to get players to stop doing for years " I am not going to win I will just NR every hole". We even get total NRs in stableford comps!!.

I was doing the cards recently and noticed a player who had put his own 'scores' did this so I deleted his score and went through and put down the scores as they were on the card. Total points 34 with 36 points being CSS for the comp. I.e. he was in his buffer zone and would not get a 0.1 increase.

We have been stressing for years one or two bad scores on the card might stop a player from winning bit still could result in a handicap cut.
 

IanMcC

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As already said my assumption is that all rounds that have been converted have been converted using the WHS rules.

I.e. Any score with less than 10 hole scores recorded is not acceptable for handicap purposes.

It is hard for me to see because it is something I never do.

Jim, unless England Golf's software works differently from Wales Golf's software, then what you are saying is simply untrue. I, too, hardly ever NR, but on 12th July this year I lost 2 balls at the 5th, and did not register a score at that hole. I continued to keep score for the rest of the round, as we are told to do. I actually played the rest of the round OK. Attached are 3 files. One shows my card as entered into ClubV1. One shows my handicap record on GolfBox, the Wales Golf CDH record, and the other shows a section of my WHS record. Clearly, this round has been discounted from my WHS record, even though there is only 1 NR on the card. I actually used this round in my powerpoint presentation to my members, highlighting the importance of not NRing any round, and a nett double bogey would be applied for WHS. This shoddy software is now making a fool of me. I have been a strong advocate of WHS, but if this glaring error in the software is not fixed, I can no longer sing its praises.
 

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jim8flog

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Jim, unless England Golf's software works differently from Wales Golf's software, then what you are saying is simply untrue. I, too, hardly ever NR, but on 12th July this year I lost 2 balls at the 5th, and did not register a score at that hole. I continued to keep score for the rest of the round, as we are told to do. I actually played the rest of the round OK. Attached are 3 files. One shows my card as entered into ClubV1. One shows my handicap record on GolfBox, the Wales Golf CDH record, and the other shows a section of my WHS record. Clearly, this round has been discounted from my WHS record, even though there is only 1 NR on the card. I actually used this round in my powerpoint presentation to my members, highlighting the importance of not NRing any round, and a nett double bogey would be applied for WHS. This shoddy software is now making a fool of me. I have been a strong advocate of WHS, but if this glaring error in the software is not fixed, I can no longer sing its praises.


From the wording of your initial comments I was assuming you were talking about a round where the whole thing was NRd.

It has taken a bit of finding as I only have 2 NRs in the past 3 years both in 2018 but you are right these scores are not on my WHS record

Luckily for me the though we have only been playing stablefords (except for club and senior champs) since Oct 2019.
 
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rulefan

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It's not a problem with the WHS but of the transition software. The transition software would have varied from country to country. In this case the issue lies with the national authority (Wales or England) and DotGolf.
 

IanMcC

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It's not a problem with the WHS but of the transition software. The transition software would have varied from country to country. In this case the issue lies with the national authority (Wales or England) and DotGolf.

I will inform Wales Golf on Monday morning.
Jim, could you upload similar snapshots of a partly NRd round from England Golf that does appear on your WHS record, please? I would like to back up my evidence.
 

IanMcC

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From the wording of your initial comments I was assuming you were talking about a round where the whole thing was NRd.

It has taken a bit of finding as I only have 2 NRs in the past 3 years both in 2018 but you are right these scores are not on my WHS record

Luckily for me the though we have only been playing stablefords (except for club and senior champs) since Oct 2019.

Apologies, missed this part. Looks like England and Wales are all wrong, then.
 

jim8flog

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I will inform Wales Golf on Monday morning.
Jim, could you upload similar snapshots of a partly NRd round from England Golf that does appear on your WHS record, please? I would like to back up my evidence.
see my post # 1,481 Edited.

Now in agreement with you.
 

IanMcC

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I have written to my contact at Wales Golf, showing him the snapshots and saying that England Golf is in a similar state. No reply as yet, obviously. Definitely too late to fix it before tomorrow, but I dont know what else to do.
It would appear that DotGolf are a shockingly amateur outfit, if you consider this and the CSS debacle.
 

nickjdavis

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Apologies, missed this part. Looks like England and Wales are all wrong, then.

I was worried when I read your comments and even more so when I reads Jim's comments that finally confirmed what you had found, so I went and checked some of my players records and can find multiple instances where a player either NR'd holes in a Stableford, or in a Medal but the score IS INCLUDED in their scoring record....in fact for the NR's medal round its actually the players best round!!!

Looks like it is not a universal issue...wonder if it is ISV software dependent?
 

IanMcC

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I was worried when I read your comments and even more so when I reads Jim's comments that finally confirmed what you had found, so I went and checked some of my players records and can find multiple instances where a player either NR'd holes in a Stableford, or in a Medal but the score IS INCLUDED in their scoring record....in fact for the NR's medal round its actually the players best round!!!

Looks like it is not a universal issue...wonder if it is ISV software dependent?
Are you England Golf or Wales Golf, Nick?
Doesnt seem to be an issue with Stableford scores.
 

IanMcC

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Probably unrelated, but Wales Golf have now stopped access to GolfBox. This is the message you get when you try to access the site.
 

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rulefan

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I was worried when I read your comments and even more so when I reads Jim's comments that finally confirmed what you had found, so I went and checked some of my players records and can find multiple instances where a player either NR'd holes in a Stableford, or in a Medal but the score IS INCLUDED in their scoring record....in fact for the NR's medal round its actually the players best round!!!

Looks like it is not a universal issue...wonder if it is ISV software dependent?
I'm not sure about Wales but the English data input to the transition program was taken directly from the CDH not from the ISVs and processed by DotGolf. I believe this was true of Wales, Scotland and Ireland (from their equivalent CDH systems) but the actual conversion programs may have produced by different organisation (other than DotGolf).
 

Vikingman

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Can anyone clarify what counts as a score under WHS. For example, if a comp takes place from measured tees (of any colour) but with lift and place throughout the general area and all bunkers classed as GUR would this count.
 

Chinny

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Can anyone clarify what counts as a score under WHS. For example, if a comp takes place from measured tees (of any colour) but with lift and place throughout the general area and all bunkers classed as GUR would this count.

You can have qualifying competitions as you describe but under the Rules of Golf, Model Local Rule E-3 (Preferred Lies) to count as a qualifying score the players ball must lie in the General Area cut to fairway height or less - This does not include all of the general area as per your question ie first cut or deep rough.

During COVID restrictions clubs were also allowed to make all bunkers GUR in qualifying competitions (R&A Covid Guidance Document)

In summary, play from measured tees, preferred lies in GA cut to fairway height or less, size of relief area no more than 6 inches and all bunkers GUR - You can have qualifying comps.
 
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