World Handicap System (WHS)

[BubbaP]

The table in that link is consistent with the Rules manual but just laid out differently.

https://www.congu.co.uk/whs/

That one looks like the one on the WHS slides that were used at the workshops.
The other one is the one from the posters in the toolkit for the clubs to use

yes as per Rulesfan

https://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/CONGU-Rules-of-Handicapping1.pdf
https://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/WHSDocs/Handicapping-Advice.pdf

Thanks for your links.
Think this is the strangest set of posts I've been involved in on here, but I like a challenge It's no big deal but I'll have another go.

To recap, I was pointing out that SG have put out on the internet this month, tweeted and on other social media the link that I shared (or the image from it)
https://scottishgolf.org/course-handicap-playing-handicap-calculations/#

I was highlighting that I didn't care for the format they had chosen
I was interested in comments on this - agree, disagree, don't care, don't understand, etc.
Not - here are some other links, as that isn't really the point.

Rulefan I think you did ultimately agree that the format/lay out was different.

So from Appendix C of the links you shared we see - which to me looks like the version EG shared. I'd probably give this 8.5 / 10


So my point was, why have SG put out something different in layout/format? I'd give that maybe 5 / 10.


My starting point here is:
Purpose: Rule 21 covers four other forms of individual play, including three forms of stroke play where scoring is different than in regular stroke play: Stableford (scoring by points awarded on each hole); Maximum Score (the score for each hole is capped at a maximum); and Par/Bogey (match play scoring used on a hole by hole basis).

An analogy might be Stroke Play are fruit, and Match Play are vegetables. Stableford are apples, Par/Bogey are oranges

I've read/heard many a time, things like "I don't play stableford, I only play stroke play" ("I don't eat applies, I only eat fruit" - eh?)


If you've made it this far, and wonder why I didn't give Appendix C 10 / 10 - well I think just having the first line of "type of round" as "Individual" is a bit rubbish, when the next three are also "Individual". Couldn't they have come up with anything better?

I notice in the links you provided there are references to "Stroke Play Competitions: Medal; "

Anyway, all done, as I said is no biggie. Roll on the 2nd.

 

[abjectplop]

No individual round scores are showing you can check your Handicap Record via your club if you are quick, the conversions will take place tomorrow.
If you record all holes where you have competed the holes and only NR those that you do not the NRs will be recorded as nett double bogey i.e the lowest score at which you would have scored 0 points in stableford.

In the WHS if there are less than 10 holes scored then the round will not count for handicap purposes. Whether or not this has happened with rounds already converted I do not know.

How is a player penalised if they NR (with less than 10 holes scored) if it doesn't count for handicap purposes? Assume it still goes in the record as 1 of the last 20? What if someone has a large number of NRs in the record without holes scored?

 

[rulefan]

Presumably the two different people that wrote them had different ideas. Just as you have

 

[nickjdavis]

On the bright side....if we are put in to a national wide lockdown next week, at least it will give handicap secretaries a load more time to resolve all the issues that are undoubtedly going to arise on Monday!!!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Everything I thought I knew today got wiped out and i‘m confused

my index, at the moment, shows 2.1.

looking at the ‘board’ showing my course handicap at my home club, off the whites, I’d be off 2. Course rating is 73.2, slope 134 and par 72.

the r&a calculator says I should be off 4.

thoroughly confused now!

 

[Fish]

Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores ?

 

[abjectplop]

Everything I thought I knew today got wiped out and i‘m confused

my index, at the moment, shows 2.1.

looking at the ‘board’ showing my course handicap at my home club, off the whites, I’d be off 2. Course rating is 73.2, slope 134 and par 72.

the r&a calculator says I should be off 4.

thoroughly confused now!

2 is correct for those numbers according to r&a calculator. Did you select 'without course rating minus par'?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

2 is correct for those numbers according to r&a calculator. Did you select 'without course rating minus par'?

I chose ‘with course rating minus par’

whats the difference? Why would you get 2 different answers?!

 

[HampshireHog]

Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores ?

If your one of your best 8 scores fall out of your most recent 20 scores your HI will go up.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores ?

When one of your best scores is the 20th score and you don’t equal it or better it then your handicap index will potentially go up

 

[rulefan]

I chose ‘with course rating minus par’

whats the difference? Why would you get 2 different answers?!

If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.

 

[El Diablo]

No individual round scores are showing you can check your Handicap Record via your club if you are quick, the conversions will take place tomorrow.
If you record all holes where you have competed the holes and only NR those that you do not the NRs will be recorded as nett double bogey i.e the lowest score at which you would have scored 0 points in stableford.

In the WHS if there are less than 10 holes scored then the round will not count for handicap purposes. Whether or not this has happened with rounds already converted I do not know.

Unfortunately these NR medal rounds do not show at all in the history of my last 50 rounds - they are missing completely which is what I was trying to refer to but perhaps unclear.

 

[rulefan]

Unfortunately these NR medal rounds do not show at all in the history of my last 50 rounds - they are missing completely which is what I was trying to refer to but perhaps unclear.

What status code do they show in the CDH ?

 

[rulefan]

Unfortunately these NR medal rounds do not show at all in the history of my last 50 rounds - they are missing completely which is what I was trying to refer to but perhaps unclear.

I am seeing this with other players.

 

[mefromhere]

If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.

Am I right in thinking then that this means that the 'World Handicap System' is now actually different for us in the UK than the rest of the world? If so, what a waste of time!

 

[rulefan]

Am I right in thinking then that this means that the 'World Handicap System' is now actually different for us in the UK than the rest of the world? If so, what a waste of time!

It has always been maintained by the authorities that there would be minor national "tradition and custom" differences initially. This is one such.
Another is that some countries will use the rounded Course Handicap before calculating the Playing Handicap (eg the 95% adjustment). Other countries are using the unrounded value.

The effects in both cases is judged to be trivial and will have no effect within that country.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.

I’m still none the wiser sadly.

why do those 2 options appear on the R&A calculator? Surely using the formulae with course rating and slope gives a more accurate representation.

it Now doesn’t make sense that I am now being cut 3 shots to play at the same course ??‍

 

[rulefan]

I’m still none the wiser sadly.

why do those 2 options appear on the R&A calculator? Surely using the formulae with course rating and slope gives a more accurate representation.

it Now doesn’t make sense that I am now being cut 3 shots to play at the same course ??‍

As I see the options on the R&A calculator they are 'Without Course Rating - Par' and 'Without Course Rating - Par'
CONGU must choose the first, elsewhere the second.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

As I see the options on the R&A calculator they are 'Without Course Rating - Par' and 'Without Course Rating - Par'
CONGU must choose the first, elsewhere the second.

R&A need to make that so much clearer on their site then.

a WHS that isn’t a WHS. perfect

 

[jim8flog]

Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores ?

Just to make sure you understand what others have said.

The 20 is the 20 most recent scores.