World Handicap System (WHS)

Liverpoolphil

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Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores 🤔
When one of your best scores is the 20th score and you don’t equal it or better it then your handicap index will potentially go up
 

rulefan

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I chose ‘with course rating minus par’

whats the difference? Why would you get 2 different answers?!
If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.
 

El Diablo

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No individual round scores are showing you can check your Handicap Record via your club if you are quick, the conversions will take place tomorrow.
If you record all holes where you have competed the holes and only NR those that you do not the NRs will be recorded as nett double bogey i.e the lowest score at which you would have scored 0 points in stableford.

In the WHS if there are less than 10 holes scored then the round will not count for handicap purposes. Whether or not this has happened with rounds already converted I do not know.
Unfortunately these NR medal rounds do not show at all in the history of my last 50 rounds - they are missing completely which is what I was trying to refer to but perhaps unclear.
 

mefromhere

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If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.
Am I right in thinking then that this means that the 'World Handicap System' is now actually different for us in the UK than the rest of the world? If so, what a waste of time!
 

Traminator

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Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores 🤔
I see a couple of guys have already answered, here's a real example:
My first score is 69 so when I get to 20 scores it's in my best 8.

When I put in my 21st score the 69 disappears and is replaced by maybe a 74, so the average of the best 8 goes up.
 

rulefan

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Am I right in thinking then that this means that the 'World Handicap System' is now actually different for us in the UK than the rest of the world? If so, what a waste of time!
It has always been maintained by the authorities that there would be minor national "tradition and custom" differences initially. This is one such.
Another is that some countries will use the rounded Course Handicap before calculating the Playing Handicap (eg the 95% adjustment). Other countries are using the unrounded value.

The effects in both cases is judged to be trivial and will have no effect within that country.
 
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Wabinez

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If the par is different to CR then you must get two different answers.
Everywhere else other than CONGU are making that adjustment so that the "super intelligent" non CONGU players can always say 36 stableford points is 'playing to my handicap'.
CONGU is doing what they have always done. Compared the score with SSS/CSS.
I’m still none the wiser sadly.

why do those 2 options appear on the R&A calculator? Surely using the formulae with course rating and slope gives a more accurate representation.

it Now doesn’t make sense that I am now being cut 3 shots to play at the same course 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

rulefan

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I’m still none the wiser sadly.

why do those 2 options appear on the R&A calculator? Surely using the formulae with course rating and slope gives a more accurate representation.

it Now doesn’t make sense that I am now being cut 3 shots to play at the same course 🤷🏻‍♂️
As I see the options on the R&A calculator they are 'Without Course Rating - Par' and 'Without Course Rating - Par'
CONGU must choose the first, elsewhere the second.
 

Wabinez

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As I see the options on the R&A calculator they are 'Without Course Rating - Par' and 'Without Course Rating - Par'
CONGU must choose the first, elsewhere the second.
R&A need to make that so much clearer on their site then.

a WHS that isn’t a WHS. perfect
 

jim8flog

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Here’s a daft question, how do you go up once this starts on the 2nd?

If it’s the best 8 from 20, what happens to the scores that are bigger, more so if they’re even bigger than any in the 20, and would have yielded a 0.1, where is that score now calculated?

If it’s best 8/20, essentially you could never go up if you never score better than your current 8/20 scores 🤔
Just to make sure you understand what others have said.

The 20 is the 20 most recent scores.
 

jim8flog

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How is a player penalised if they NR (with less than 10 holes scored) if it doesn't count for handicap purposes? Assume it still goes in the record as 1 of the last 20? What if someone has a large number of NRs in the record without holes scored?

there is no 'penalty' it simply does not get accepted for handicap purposes.

In your example the Handicap Committee should investigate why a player is submitting a lot of NRs e.g is it deliberate to protect a handicap.
 

jim8flog

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What status code do they show in the CDH ?
I am seeing this with other players.
As already said my assumption is that all rounds that have been converted have been converted using the WHS rules.

I.e. Any score with less than 10 hole scores recorded is not acceptable for handicap purposes.

It is hard for me to see because it is something I never do.
 
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there is no 'penalty' it simply does not get accepted for handicap purposes.

In your example the Handicap Committee should investigate why a player is submitting a lot of NRs e.g is it deliberate to protect a handicap.
Find that crazy....routinely see guys just punching in 0s for every hole at the moment, probably for vanity reasons. At least under the current system they get their 0.1 like everyone else who misses buffer.
 

jim8flog

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Find that crazy....routinely see guys just punching in 0s for every hole at the moment,.
And that is something we have been trying to get players to stop doing for years " I am not going to win I will just NR every hole". We even get total NRs in stableford comps!!.

I was doing the cards recently and noticed a player who had put his own 'scores' did this so I deleted his score and went through and put down the scores as they were on the card. Total points 34 with 36 points being CSS for the comp. I.e. he was in his buffer zone and would not get a 0.1 increase.

We have been stressing for years one or two bad scores on the card might stop a player from winning bit still could result in a handicap cut.
 

IanMcC

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As already said my assumption is that all rounds that have been converted have been converted using the WHS rules.

I.e. Any score with less than 10 hole scores recorded is not acceptable for handicap purposes.

It is hard for me to see because it is something I never do.
Jim, unless England Golf's software works differently from Wales Golf's software, then what you are saying is simply untrue. I, too, hardly ever NR, but on 12th July this year I lost 2 balls at the 5th, and did not register a score at that hole. I continued to keep score for the rest of the round, as we are told to do. I actually played the rest of the round OK. Attached are 3 files. One shows my card as entered into ClubV1. One shows my handicap record on GolfBox, the Wales Golf CDH record, and the other shows a section of my WHS record. Clearly, this round has been discounted from my WHS record, even though there is only 1 NR on the card. I actually used this round in my powerpoint presentation to my members, highlighting the importance of not NRing any round, and a nett double bogey would be applied for WHS. This shoddy software is now making a fool of me. I have been a strong advocate of WHS, but if this glaring error in the software is not fixed, I can no longer sing its praises.
 

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jim8flog

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Jim, unless England Golf's software works differently from Wales Golf's software, then what you are saying is simply untrue. I, too, hardly ever NR, but on 12th July this year I lost 2 balls at the 5th, and did not register a score at that hole. I continued to keep score for the rest of the round, as we are told to do. I actually played the rest of the round OK. Attached are 3 files. One shows my card as entered into ClubV1. One shows my handicap record on GolfBox, the Wales Golf CDH record, and the other shows a section of my WHS record. Clearly, this round has been discounted from my WHS record, even though there is only 1 NR on the card. I actually used this round in my powerpoint presentation to my members, highlighting the importance of not NRing any round, and a nett double bogey would be applied for WHS. This shoddy software is now making a fool of me. I have been a strong advocate of WHS, but if this glaring error in the software is not fixed, I can no longer sing its praises.

From the wording of your initial comments I was assuming you were talking about a round where the whole thing was NRd.

It has taken a bit of finding as I only have 2 NRs in the past 3 years both in 2018 but you are right these scores are not on my WHS record

Luckily for me the though we have only been playing stablefords (except for club and senior champs) since Oct 2019.
 
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rulefan

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It's not a problem with the WHS but of the transition software. The transition software would have varied from country to country. In this case the issue lies with the national authority (Wales or England) and DotGolf.
 

IanMcC

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It's not a problem with the WHS but of the transition software. The transition software would have varied from country to country. In this case the issue lies with the national authority (Wales or England) and DotGolf.
I will inform Wales Golf on Monday morning.
Jim, could you upload similar snapshots of a partly NRd round from England Golf that does appear on your WHS record, please? I would like to back up my evidence.
 
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