World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

This was not my understanding in the course workshop yesterday. Maybe with so much info and nothing being given out by way of written info maybe I did not follow fully. Like you have said in post# 125 we were only being shown the charts and examples in whole numbers


The charts showed on screen showed the Course Handicap handicap calculations and it was not until much later in the presentation were we introduced to all the percentages for the different formats.

No doubt when all the manuals are released it will be totally clear.

You should be getting a hardcopy of all the slides from EG.
But certainly my powerpoint copy and hard copy show the decimal included in the Playing Handicap calculation.

 

[nickjdavis]

The presenters would have had no more information than what was on the slideshow. EG aren't providing much extra until all seminars have been completed and everyone (ie club officials) are at the same level.
One or two of us have an inside track and have been able to winkle out a bit more but very little.

OK...perhaps we went to the seminar with the expectation that the folks presenting to us were already well versed in the system and would be able to talk in greater depth about the nuances, rather than just read what was displayed on the screen. If what you write is correct (and I'm not doubting you) then perhaps there is less to worry about in terms of wondering why our local union reps are seemingly devoid of knowledge.

 

[rulefan]

OK...perhaps we went to the seminar with the expectation that the folks presenting to us were already well versed in the system and would be able to talk in greater depth about the nuances, rather than just read what was displayed on the screen. If what you write is correct (and I'm not doubting you) then perhaps there is less to worry about in terms of wondering why our local union reps are seemingly devoid of knowledge.

In fact there were two or three regional sessions where the potential presenters simply had a 'presentation' on presenting 'the' presentation. Only afterwards were we were given a preliminary draft of the CONGU WHS Rules (which excluded any variations that the USGA, Australia etc may have in theirs).

I have a copy of the (very comprehensive USGA Rules) which include the following (which I posted earlier):

Note: The calculated 18-hole and 9-hole Course Handicap is rounded to the
nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards, for the purpose of:
> Applying adjustments for maximum hole score (see Rule 3.1) and when a hole is not played (see Rule 3.2).
> Where applicable, calculating a Score Differential.
Otherwise, the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the
Playing Handicap calculation.

This does not appear in the CONGU draft.

 

[nickjdavis]

In fact there were two or three regional sessions where the potential presenters simply had a 'presentation' on presenting 'the' presentation. Only afterwards were we were given a preliminary draft of the CONGU WHS Rules (which excluded any variations that the USGA, Australia etc may have in theirs).

I have a copy of the (very comprehensive USGA Rules) which include the following (which I posted earlier):

Note: The calculated 18-hole and 9-hole Course Handicap is rounded to the
nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards, for the purpose of:
> Applying adjustments for maximum hole score (see Rule 3.1) and when a hole is not played (see Rule 3.2).
> Where applicable, calculating a Score Differential.
Otherwise, the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the
Playing Handicap calculation.

This does not appear in the CONGU draft.

Yes I've had a copy of the USGA rules for a few weeks now as well. You cant help but wonder sometimes about how "world" this WHS is when there may be fundamental differences in how the calculations might work.

Sure there may be regional differences to take account of the most popular playing formats in terms of what type of scores are allowable...but it does seem strange that there may be differences in the calculation methodology.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[rulefan]

Yes I've had a copy of the USGA rules for a few weeks now as well. You cant help but wonder sometimes about how "world" this WHS is when there may be fundamental differences in how the calculations might work.

Sure there may be regional differences to take account of the most popular playing formats in terms of what type of scores are allowable...but it does seem strange that there may be differences in the calculation methodology.

Time will tell I guess.

The only significant difference is the (CR-Par) element of the CH calculation, which is supposed to help calculate NDB. Not sure how. But it makes no difference to the Score Differential when calculating any Handicap Index adjustment post round. As it (CH calc) applies to all players, it doesn't affect competition results.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things that I have noticed, from checking online, is that the charts that I have looked at show as a single line for a given handicap index range (eg 10.5 to 11.3) with a course handicap as a whole number only.

So anybody just using the charts and then applying the percentage for a given competition may come up with a different number than somebody doing the maths for themselves.

That assumes the same charts will be used in CONGU regions to those in the USGA regions

 

[nickjdavis]

One of the things that I have noticed, from checking online, is that the charts that I have looked at show as a single line for a given handicap index range (eg 10.5 to 11.3) with a course handicap as a whole number only.

So anybody just using the charts and then applying the percentage for a given competition may come up with a different number than somebody doing the maths for themselves.

That assumes the same charts will be used in CONGU regions to those in the USGA regions

I have raised this very issue with my county secretary.

He has forwarded the "problem" on to England Golf. When I get a reply... I'll post it here.

 

[Swango1980]

I have raised this very issue with my county secretary.

He has forwarded the "problem" on to England Golf. When I get a reply... I'll post it here.

Just in case you don't get an answer, I've added it to my list for the Woodhall Spa workshop next week

 

[ScienceBoy]

I have a feeling that the shift to WHS will have an impact on those who are seen as “regular winners” at golf clubs, which could be a good thing.

 

[3offTheTee]

A guy said today that any Club MAY make ‘roll ups’ qualifying and players would have to input scores.

To overcome this gimmees could be involved.

Is this correct

 

[lex!]

A guy said today that any Club MAY make ‘roll ups’ qualifying and players would have to input scores.

To overcome this gimmees could be involved.

Is this correct

Can't see it will make any difference. Why would a club want to do that? If you 'roll up' under the present system you could notify the intention to post a supplementary score first.

 

[sunshine]

At present counties do an audit of cat 1 players and I don't see that being dropped but perhaps being concentrated on 2 or better (say)

I'm curious, why only Cat 1 players?

I would have thought that the bandits were mainly in cat 2 or 3! And the prestigious competitions for the county are all scratch.

I really know very little about the finer details of handicapping.

 

[3offTheTee]

Can't see it will make any difference. Why would a club want to do that? If you 'roll up' under the present system you could notify the intention to post a supplementary score first.

I am not asking why but whether they may if they want to.

If they did go ahead it would mean all roll up scores being inputted

 

[Swango1980]

I'm curious, why only Cat 1 players?

I would have thought that the bandits were mainly in cat 2 or 3! And the prestigious competitions for the county are all scratch.

I really know very little about the finer details of handicapping.

I'm guessing it is because, once you get to Category 1, you could start knocking on the door at playing elite amateur golf, such as County and National golf competitions. I know that, to get to that level, you probably need to be significantly below 5, but best to catch them long before they get closer to that handicap level of scratch and lower.

I doubt the unions are bothered about bandits, the guidelines are there to let individual golf club handicap committees to try and deal with them. A category 2 or 3 golfer is not going to have any impact at the elite level.

 

[jim8flog]

I am not asking why but whether they may if they want to.

If they did go ahead it would mean all roll up scores being inputted

There was an edict that came out a few years ago that said we must take roll up scores in to consideration when conducting the Annual Review but that meant the organisers actually keeping records of all the scores. We have lots of different roll ups where I play and some the simply refused to keep the records and others said "if it is not going to be applied to all roll ups I do not see why it should be applied to ours" and some said they would refuse to give over the records on the same basis". It also brought up the thorny issue of gimmes.

I play in quite a few of them, they all play stableford and allow gimmes of one length or another.

As already said it would require all players to notify their intention of playing a qualifying round (supplementary score in today's parlance).

 

[jim8flog]

I'm curious, why only Cat 1 players?

I would have thought that the bandits were mainly in cat 2 or 3! And the prestigious competitions for the county are all scratch.

I really know very little about the finer details of handicapping.

I'm guessing it is because, once you get to Category 1, you could start knocking on the door at playing elite amateur golf, such as County and National golf competitions. I know that, to get to that level, you probably need to be significantly below 5, but best to catch them long before they get closer to that handicap level of scratch and lower.

I doubt the unions are bothered about bandits, the guidelines are there to let individual golf club handicap committees to try and deal with them. A category 2 or 3 golfer is not going to have any impact at the elite level.

Worth remembering that there will be no Cats under the WHS and only scratch or better men and 2 or better ladies will fall under the 'scrutiny' of county.

 

[rulefan]

I'm curious, why only Cat 1 players?

I would have thought that the bandits were mainly in cat 2 or 3! And the prestigious competitions for the county are all scratch.

There is a very high number of potential entries for prestigious competitions and these are the ones that counties and national bodies run.
Clubs can look after themselves for internal comps.

 

[rulefan]

So anybody just using the charts and then applying the percentage for a given competition may come up with a different number than somebody doing the maths for themselves.

That assumes the same charts will be used in CONGU regions to those in the USGA regions

They only show a Course Handicap but the will not be the same around the world. There are two alternative formulae that national authorities may choose from.
In addition the Playing Handicap may be different because Allowances can be varied by Authority.
But if playing outside your authority you abide by the local variant.

 

[jim8flog]

They only show a Course Handicap but the will not be the same around the world. There are two alternative formulae that national authorities may choose from.
In addition the Playing Handicap may be different because Allowances can be varied by Authority.
But if playing outside your authority you abide by the local variant.

From the best of my memory the charts I have found online are pretty much identical to the one shown us on the slides, hence my original comments about my understanding that percentages were applied to a whole number.

Reference was made to the charts being able to be bought direct from England Golf including a photo of a large one for display outside the clubhouse.

 

[jim8flog]

I would add see England Golf Final FAQs Page 3 2) Your Index. first question