World Handicap System (WHS)

[nickjdavis]

Just use the calculator on your phone

The actual calculation is just one part of the issue. The main part is knowing what your course handicap is to one decimal place. Are we expecting players to do the Handicap Index*Slope/113 calculation for themselves and then do 95% (or whatever) of the result every time they play?

What then is the point of having the Course Handicap Tables if theyre irrelevant?

 

[jim8flog]

So, from what I am reading, are we saying players will need to work out their own playing handicap? The answer seems to be, we are not sure if it is worked out using the course handicap ro a decimal place or an integer? But, we do not need to worry as the computer will just work it out. So, does that mean we are 100% reliant on the computer?

Just wondering what we'll do when we go and play a social weekend away with a mate or 2 (or something like our Captains weekend which 27 of us are playing). We'll not have a computer to help us there. I know it's only social, so we're not getting a DQ if everyone thinks it's been done correctly. But, it would be nice to be sure we had done the calculation correctly. Although, I bet it will still annoy some that they need to figure out 95% of a number, even if they knew it was a decimal or integer they were starting from

The requirement still remains that a player is only responsible for having their correct gross handicap (index) on the card.

All clubs will have to offer charts to work out the course handicap but you will still have to work out any other changes for you own benefit eg single pairs etc

For reference Course Handicap (current playing) is definitely a whole number 0.4 or lower going down and 0.5 and above going up (as currently done) the charts will show this.

 

[jim8flog]

I do find it amazing that players are suggesting they need a calculator to work out 95%.

Take the number, work out 10%, half it then deduct that from you handicap.

 

[duncan mackie]

For reference Course Handicap (current playing) is definitely a whole number 0.4 or lower going down and 0.5 and above going up (as currently done) the charts will show this.

Throwing statements like this into the thread is somewhat misleading -

1. Course handicap isn't necessarily your (current?) playing handicap.

2. Course handicap as a calculated figure for use in the calculation of a playing handicap is not rounded to a whole number.

In simple terms you round to a whole number when you get to the output you are actually going to use for that round in that competition.

 

[jim8flog]

Throwing statements like this into the thread is somewhat misleading -

1. Course handicap isn't necessarily your (current?) playing handicap.

2. Course handicap as a calculated figure for use in the calculation of a playing handicap is not rounded to a whole number.

In simple terms you round to a whole number when you get to the output you are actually going to use for that round in that competition.

Sorry I do not get your logic in response to the original Post I quoted

Handicap index x (slope rating /113) = Course Handicap

This is then rounded to a whole number is what we were told at the workshop yesterday.

The reason for quoting current in brackets is because of what was posted in the post I was replying to.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry I do not get your logic in response to the original Post I quoted

Handicap index x (slope rating /113) = Course Handicap

This is then rounded to a whole number is what we were told at the workshop yesterday.

The reason for quoting current in brackets is because of what was posted in the post I was replying to.

If the calculated Course Handicap is to then be converted to a playing handicap e.g. a stroke play competition at 95%, it is not rounded to a whole number

 

[Swango1980]

I do find it amazing that players are suggesting they need a calculator to work out 95%.

Take the number, work out 10%, half it then deduct that from you handicap.

You may find this amazing. BUT, there is a guy in my club who cannot even divide a whole number by 10. I told him all you did was move the decimal point one to the left. He said 82 (the number he was trying to divide) doesn't have a decimal point. You have far too high an opinion on the capability of some people. My grandad used to think calculating a percentage was equivalent to nuclear physics

 

[Swango1980]

If the calculated Course Handicap is to then be converted to a playing handicap e.g. a stroke play competition at 95%, it is not rounded to a whole number

A agree with you, that is what I would have thought. It appears that some of the slides being presented at these workshops are misleading then

 

[duncan mackie]

A agree with you, that is what I would have thought. It appears that some of the slides being presented at these workshops are misleading then

I think the use of 2 different levels of rounding within the same calculation is probably the biggest confusion - which then combines with terminology and context...

 

[doublebogey7]

and what do you do if you don't have access to the PSI.....if there ISNT a PSI????

What is this mythical App than folks keep talking about....as yet it does not exist so you cannot rely on it being available.

As I understand it all clubs will be required to have PSI Terminals, grants are available for those don't currently possess one. I understand that the Intelligent Golf app is already available. But if nothing is available by the time you go on your away day, there is nothing stopping you doing exactly what you would do today. I struggle to understand why people are putting so many obstacles in the way, some 10 months before this goes life, it was the same this time last with the rules, but the world continues to turn.

 

[rulefan]

As I understand it all clubs will be required to have PSI Terminals, grants are available for those don't currently possess one. I understand that the Intelligent Golf app is already available. But if nothing is available by the time you go on your away day, there is nothing stopping you doing exactly what you would do today. I struggle to understand why people are putting so many obstacles in the way, some 10 months before this goes life, it was the same this time last with the rules, but the world continues to turn.

You are absolutely correct. All the front end providers will have the calculations built into the entry/registration screen. Registration is required for comps and supplementaries.
If a PSI is not available for a supplementary it doesn't matter, as Playing Handicap (as opposed to Course Handicap) has no part in the calculation of the Score Differential (ie the figure used to update any resultant handicap adjustment)

 

[nickjdavis]

Sorry I do not get your logic in response to the original Post I quoted

Handicap index x (slope rating /113) = Course Handicap

This is then rounded to a whole number is what we were told at the workshop yesterday.

The reason for quoting current in brackets is because of what was posted in the post I was replying to.

This is partly the crux of this discussion. It appears that the course handicap is not rounded to a whole number....the decimal number is then used to calculate the playing handicap.

 

[rulefan]

Sorry I do not get your logic in response to the original Post I quoted

Handicap index x (slope rating /113) = Course Handicap

This is then rounded to a whole number is what we were told at the workshop yesterday.

The reason for quoting current in brackets is because of what was posted in the post I was replying to.

See posts #125 & #129

These show there are two steps involved in determining a Playing Handicap
The first step is to get the un-rounded (1 dec) value of the Course Handicap calculation.
The second step is to apply the Allowance %age and round that to a whole number.

 

[Swango1980]

As I understand it all clubs will be required to have PSI Terminals, grants are available for those don't currently possess one. I understand that the Intelligent Golf app is already available. But if nothing is available by the time you go on your away day, there is nothing stopping you doing exactly what you would do today. I struggle to understand why people are putting so many obstacles in the way, some 10 months before this goes life, it was the same this time last with the rules, but the world continues to turn.

Is it not better to ask the objective questions now (obstacles), rather than to simply sit back and wait and see what happens? Even if they never materialise, it is better to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. You never know, there may still be some tweaks made to WHS between now and then based on any concerns that may be raised consistently. I'm sure it has been adapted up to this point by trying to address concerns that were raised previously (i.e. I doubt, on the day WHS was first thought off, it looked exactly like it does today)

 

[Vikingman]

With the example quoted it co

The calculation is always done to 1 dec place rounded conventionally.
The resultant figure is rounded conventionally to a whole number.

So the slides I presented a couple of weeks at one of the county seminars ago show:

(Handicap Index) * (Slope / 113) = (Course Handicap)
.........15.6.....................1.05..................16.4 (16)

(Course Handicap) * (Allowance) = (Playing Handicap)
..........16.4.....................95%.................15.5 (16)

When I presented this, I was immediately asked 'How do we know our 1 dec place CH as the charts only show whole numbers'. The EG representative didn't know the answer and my briefing notes gave no clue. I am now awaiting a clear answer from Woodhall Spa.
My guess is they expect the software to sort it out and display it on entry to a comp or pre-registration for a 'casual' score.

Rounded conventionally 95% of 16.4 is 15.6, not 15.5 which is the point I was making.

In this instance both 15.5 and 15.6 would be rounded to 16.

What concerned me was if 15.58 becomes 15.5 then what does 15.48 become?

Anyway, I have mentioned it to my local union.

 

[nickjdavis]

As I understand it all clubs will be required to have PSI Terminals, grants are available for those don't currently possess one. I understand that the Intelligent Golf app is already available. But if nothing is available by the time you go on your away day, there is nothing stopping you doing exactly what you would do today. I struggle to understand why people are putting so many obstacles in the way, some 10 months before this goes life, it was the same this time last with the rules, but the world continues to turn.

We have never been told that we must have a PSI terminal. If required to have one we would need to understand how it is supposed to work in conjunction with the existing computer system we use for our competition management and handicapping software. I'm assuming that there requires some sort of network connectivity to the computer....which for us would be an issue, as it is turned off and locked in a cupboard for 90% of the time and only powered up when we process the scores from a competition or process some supplementary cards.

We have asked the questions many times in the last year (to England Golf, our local Union, our ISV)....and nobody seems to be able to provide answers. Its not a case of putting obstacles in the way...its a case of trying to understand what we need to do to clear the obstacles that already exist, what changes we will need to make in the way we manage and administer our competitions, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much reliable advice out there.

 

[rulefan]

We have never been told that we must have a PSI terminal. If required to have one we would need to understand how it is supposed to work in conjunction with the existing computer system we use for our competition management and handicapping software. I'm assuming that there requires some sort of network connectivity to the computer....which for us would be an issue, as it is turned off and locked in a cupboard for 90% of the time and only powered up when we process the scores from a competition or process some supplementary cards.

We have asked the questions many times in the last year (to England Golf, our local Union, our ISV)....and nobody seems to be able to provide answers. Its not a case of putting obstacles in the way...its a case of trying to understand what we need to do to clear the obstacles that already exist, what changes we will need to make in the way we manage and administer our competitions, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much reliable advice out there.

If your club has had a representative at a workshop/seminar they will have been told that 'Further information will be issued in early 2020'. This will be shortly after all workshops have been completed. There would have been an opportunity to ask the presenters about technology/software/hardware requirements.

 

[nickjdavis]

If your club has had a representative at a workshop/seminar they will have been told that 'Further information will be issued in early 2020'. This will be shortly after all workshops have been completed. There would have been an opportunity to ask the presenters about technology/software/hardware requirements.

I was there along with our Club Handicap Secretary. We did ask. They didn't know.

Now whether the lack of knowledge was because it was being run by local County officials and not by England Golf I dont know. The presenter did little more than read out exactly what was on the slides and couldnt really flesh out further information when asked more probing questions.

 

[jim8flog]

See posts #125 & #129

These show there are two steps involved in determining a Playing Handicap
The first step is to get the un-rounded (1 dec) value of the Course Handicap calculation.
The second step is to apply the Allowance %age and round that to a whole number.

See posts #125 & #129

These show there are two steps involved in determining a Playing Handicap
The first step is to get the un-rounded (1 dec) value of the Course Handicap calculation.
The second step is to apply the Allowance %age and round that to a whole number.

This is partly the crux of this discussion. It appears that the course handicap is not rounded to a whole number....the decimal number is then used to calculate the playing handicap.

This was not my understanding in the course workshop yesterday. Maybe with so much info and nothing being given out by way of written info maybe I did not follow fully. Like you have said in post# 125 we were only being shown the charts and examples in whole numbers


The charts showed on screen showed the Course Handicap handicap calculations and it was not until much later in the presentation were we introduced to all the percentages for the different formats.

No doubt when all the manuals are released it will be totally clear.

 

[rulefan]

I was there along with our Club Handicap Secretary. We did ask. They didn't know.

Now whether the lack of knowledge was because it was being run by local County officials and not by England Golf I dont know. The presenter did little more than read out exactly what was on the slides and couldnt really flesh out further information when asked more probing questions.

The presenters would have had no more information than what was on the slideshow. EG aren't providing much extra until all seminars have been completed and everyone (ie club officials) are at the same level.
One or two of us have an inside track and have been able to winkle out a bit more but very little.