World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

From the best of my memory the charts I have found online are pretty much identical to the one shown us on the slides, hence my original comments about my understanding that percentages were applied to a whole number.

Reference was made to the charts being able to be bought direct from England Golf including a photo of a large one for display outside the clubhouse.

Yes. England Golf has done a deal with Eagle Golf for discounted boards.

The charts you have seen will almost certainly have been from USGA courses and display Course Handicap only. The Course Handicap in GB&I will be different to most other places in the world due to the different formulae in use.
Playing Handicaps will not be on the charts because different forms of play require different %ages to be applied.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes. England Golf has done a deal with Eagle Golf for discounted boards.

The charts you have seen will almost certainly have been from USGA courses and display Course Handicap only. The Course Handicap in GB&I will be different to most other places in the world due to the different formulae in use.
Playing Handicaps will not be on the charts because different forms of play require different %ages to be applied.

The point under discussion is at what point in the calculation to the playing handicap is the decimal point dropped and the number increased/decreased to an integer. From the Charts and what England Golf has said in the FAQ it would be after converting a players handicap index to a course handicap and before applying the %s for different comp formats, which is what I said originally and others said I was wrong and the conversion to an integer only came at the end of the calculation.

Given the number of different percentages involved 10, 25, 30 40 50 60 95 (they are the ones I can remember) I just cannot see how a chart system would work easily.

 

[rulefan]

The point under discussion is at what point in the calculation to the playing handicap is the decimal point dropped and the number increased/decreased to an integer. From the Charts and what England Golf has said in the FAQ it would be after converting a players handicap index to a course handicap and before applying the %s for different comp formats, which is what I said originally and others said I was wrong and the conversion to an integer only came at the end of the calculation.

Given the number of different percentages involved 10, 25, 30 40 50 60 95 (they are the ones I can remember) I just cannot see how a chart system would work easily.

I can confirm that the unrounded Course Handicap is used in the Playing Handicap calculation. It was omitted from the EG information apparently in error.
As you say, a chart system would be impossible.
The CONGU Technical team are taking it up with the R&A re the practicality for players. However, the front end software (IG, ClubV1, HM etc) will display the Playing Handicap when a player registers his entry via a PSI or app (when they become available).

 

[rulefan]

If you 'roll up' under the present system you could notify the intention to post a supplementary score first.

21/1 Return of a Supplementary Score in a Non Qualifying Competition
Q. A club committee has declared a competition to be a Non-Qualifying Competition. May competitors play in the competition and concurrently return a Supplementary Score?
A. No.

 

[Imurg]

21/1 Return of a Supplementary Score in a Non Qualifying Competition
Q. A club committee has declared a competition to be a Non-Qualifying Competition. May competitors play in the competition and concurrently return a Supplementary Score?
A. No.

Because, for a committee to declare a comp to be NQ there must be a reason - too many temps, shortened course etc..?

 

[Swango1980]

Because, for a committee to declare a comp to be NQ there must be a reason - too many temps, shortened course etc..?

Not necessarily. The Seniors at my club this year decided to play lots of comps as non-qualifier, even though qualifying conditions were present. Why? Because, according to them, too many Seniors get nervous when playing qualifiers, and simply won't play (allegedly). I told them off many times, and I believe they will do things properly this year. It was a nightmare for me at Annual Review, having to go through all these scores and looking to see who needed adjusting potentially, up and down, especially as I don't know many of them so have little else to go on. At least if they were qualifiers, the system can help flag certain players. Anyway, a few of them got a shock in January when they lost their c status. They played well over 3 comps, but not qualifiers. And, they haven't been able to submit supplementary cards this year as weather has put us on many temp greens and tees

What is interesting though: what if a senior turned up to play one of these non qualifiers, but needed to get a card in for handicap. So, before round they request to submit card once over. Do we say no, even though the course is playing under qualifying conditions, but the Committee just decided not to run it as qualifier?

 

[rulefan]

What is interesting though: what if a senior turned up to play one of these non qualifiers, but needed to get a card in for handicap. So, before round they request to submit card once over. Do we say no, even though the course is playing under qualifying conditions, but the Committee just decided not to run it as qualifier?

This is a tricky situation. Currently CONGU expects there to be one handicap committee in a club. The status of a section within the club (seniors, rabbits, tigers etc) has never been formally resolved.
The UHS is based on the following fundamental premises:
• every golf club or handicapping authority will, whenever possible run stroke play competitions as qualifying competitions, ....
It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.
Unions have a duty to ensure that Affiliated Clubs discharge their responsibilities in full. Sanctions may be taken against any party that does not observe either the spirit or intent of the system.

However, under the WHS it seems CONGU or EG will be encouraging organised groups to run, what are in effect qualifiers.

 

[nickjdavis]

Yes. England Golf has done a deal with Eagle Golf for discounted boards.

The charts you have seen will almost certainly have been from USGA courses and display Course Handicap only. The Course Handicap in GB&I will be different to most other places in the world due to the different formulae in use.
Playing Handicaps will not be on the charts because different forms of play require different %ages to be applied.

The charts in the EG presentation come from English courses and are riddled with errors.

If as you say in a later post it is confirmed that the decimal course Handicap will be used to calculate Playing Handicap, then the charts are useless and there is no reason to spend £150 on one.

 

[rulefan]

The charts in the EG presentation come from English courses and are riddled with errors.

I can only see one Course Handicap Table in the slides. There is certainly one error. It is spelt as Etham Warren instead of Eltham Warren.
What are the others?

 

[rulefan]

The formula above only gives the Course Handicap. To get the Playing Handicap you have to adjust for the Handicap Allowance.
eg 95% for individual medal or stableford
100% for individual match
85% for 4ball stroke/stableford
95% for 4ball match

Update:
90% for 4ball match play

 

[bobmac]

What a shambles.
I'm glad I don't play h/cap golf any more

 

[IanMcC]

Update:
90% for 4ball match play

So 90% of Course handicap to get Playing handicap in a 4 ball match.
Do we still then take 90% difference of playing handicaps, from lowest handicapper, to find out strokes received, as we did under CONGU?

 

[User20204]

What a shambles.
I'm glad I don't play h/cap golf any more

Interestingly my pro asked me about the WHS this afternoon and my thoughts on it, he's not that clued up. I told him I just can't get my head round it all with this course rating etc and what handicap one would be dependant on what tees you play off, just sounds an absolute mess.

 

[nickjdavis]

I can only see one Course Handicap Table in the slides. There is certainly one error. It is spelt as Etham Warren instead of Eltham Warren.
What are the others?

Ok....on the E(l)tham Warren slide. Yes the missing L is an error.

The slope for both the yellows and the white tees is shown as 113. The course handicap therefore should be identical whatever the handicap index...but on the white tee you get a course handicap of 4 for handicap indexes of 3.6 to 4.4, on the yellow tees an index of 3.6 to 4.5 will get you a CH of 4. From this point on the charts do not match and continue to diverge until then end. If you look up Eltham Warren on the USGA course rating site, the Slope Index for the Yellow tees is listed as 111.

On the slide show that I've got a copy of, there is an example Rating Table on Page 60 for Reigate Heath GC. Despite differing Slope Ratings for four different tees, all four tees give identical Course Handicaps. The table shows Course Rating and Slopes of 68.2/122; 69.6/125; 68.6/120; 68.6/120 for the White, Yellow, Blue and Red Tees respectively. The USGA website shows 68.2/120; 66.4/118 and 71.4/129 for the White, Yellow and Red Tees (doesn't have a rating for the blue tees). Confusingly, instead of using the term Course Handicap, the term "Course Index" is used.

Also on this table, there is no Handicap Index that ever results in a Course Handicap of zero.

Anyone trying to make sense of the Course Handicap calculations is just going to go round in circles trying to reconcile these "published" tables with the calculations shown elsewhere in the presentation.

 

[rulefan]

OK. I think you have an early version of the slide show.
The Eltham slope for the yellow should be 111 and for the red 122

but I think the slides are supposed to show the principle of the tables rather than real figures

 

[lex!]

21/1 Return of a Supplementary Score in a Non Qualifying Competition
Q. A club committee has declared a competition to be a Non-Qualifying Competition. May competitors play in the competition and concurrently return a Supplementary Score?
A. No.

That's nothing to do with the point i was making.

For your handicap to be a fair reflection of your playing ability you should return as many qualifying competition scores as possible. It is not always easy to play in as many competitions as you may like so you are able to submit supplementary scores. You can do this at any club of which you are a member and you may do this over 9- or 18-holes. You must check with your club manager or professional – or whoever runs ‘golf’ at your club - which tees you must play off. There will also be some form of ‘sign in’ before you go out to play to indicate your intention to play a supplementary score. You will need someone to mark and sign your card – just as in a competition.

 

[rulefan]

It was just a piece of information that some people may not have been aware of. It is marginally related to the point made elsewhere in the thread that organised groups within a club may themselves, under WHS rules, act as a committee for authorised handicap rounds.

 

[rulefan]

So 90% of Course handicap to get Playing handicap in a 4 ball match.
Do we still then take 90% difference of playing handicaps, from lowest handicapper, to find out strokes received, as we did under CONGU?

You calculate each player's Playing Handicap (ie applying the 90%) . Then go from the lowest.

 

[rulefan]

When I presented this, I was immediately asked 'How do we know our 1 dec place CH as the charts only show whole numbers'. The EG representative didn't know the answer and my briefing notes gave no clue. I am now awaiting a clear answer from Woodhall Spa.
My guess is they expect the software to sort it out and display it on entry to a comp or pre-registration for a 'casual' score.

I can confirm that all the front end ISV systems (IG, HM, V1 etc) will do all the appropriate Playing Handicap calculations automatically at the point of registration, for both competition and general play.

 

[IanMcC]

You calculate each player's Playing Handicap (ie applying the 90%) . Then go from the lowest.

Apologies. Don't fully understand. When you say subtract the lowest is it now 100% of difference from lowest, not 9/10 as it was?