World Handicap System (WHS)

[Swango1980]

It isn’t officially run - it is run by the roll-up organiser and he has no standing in the club. And as it is a rollup and played for fun within any group of three or four we can gives putts...though we do so with consideration of all others playing in the individual stableford. So no stupid gimmes. We also run our own rollup handicap adjustment system so many of us play in the rollup off a lower handicap than our official handicap.

We use the club system primarily to reserve the tee times that the club had agreed that we can have. And the easiest way of doing that and capturing our scores is setting the rollup up as a competition in the context of our system and then we can use the app to return our scores as we cannot all hang around while all the 10 rollup groups come in.

Shocking decision if these are counted as qualifiers?

 

[Ethan]

Isn't the concept of qualifiers essentially going out the window now, and instead we have rounds which are either registered to count or not (en masse or an individual opt-in basis), and roll up rounds can count in this if you so register them?

 

[jim8flog]

It isn’t officially run - it is run by the roll-up organiser and he has no standing in the club. And as it is a rollup and played for fun within any group of three or four we can gives putts...though we do so with consideration of all others playing in the individual stableford. So no stupid gimmes. We also run our own rollup handicap adjustment system so many of us play in the rollup off a lower handicap than our official handicap.

We use the club system primarily to reserve the tee times that the club had agreed that we can have. And the easiest way of doing that and capturing our scores is setting the rollup up as a competition in the context of our system and then we can use the app to return our scores as we cannot all hang around while all the 10 rollup groups come in.

As I understand it, it does not that have to be run as a qualifier but a player can chose to have the card treated as a preregistered round without the need to use the book or whatever you do provided it is played in accordance with the rules of golf e.g. no gimme putts

 

[rulefan]

As I understand it, it does not that have to be run as a qualifier but a player can chose to have the card treated as a preregistered round without the need to use the book or whatever you do provided it is played in accordance with the rules of golf e.g. no gimme putts

If a player chooses to have a non comp count as a handicap counting score under CONGU or WHS, it has to be pre-declared.
Unless (post WHS) is it played in a regular 'roll up' or similar, formally recognised by the committee as a handicap counting 'competition'.

Rule 2.1a(iii)

 

[jim8flog]

If a player chooses to have a non comp count as a handicap counting score under CONGU or WHS, it has to be pre-declared.
Unless (post WHS) is it played in a regular 'roll up' or similar, formally recognised by the committee as a handicap counting 'competition'.

Rule 2.1a(iii)

Rule 2.1 a (iii)
Last paragraph

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their
intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an
authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

 

[doublebogey7]

What happens when you play a comp and the results aren't processed before the next time you play? Currently it's easy to tell if you are due a cut or not based on SSS and apply it. What's the equivalent process under WHS?

From what I've heard so far there seems to be bit of a head in the sand attitude to this....

Not at all, all scores entered will be added to your handicap record overnight regardless of whether or not the competition has been closed by your club committee.

 

[srixon 1]

Does anyone know if there is an app for the WHS yet?

 

[jim8flog]

What happens when you play a comp and the results aren't processed before the next time you play? Currently it's easy to tell if you are due a cut or not based on SSS and apply it. What's the equivalent process under WHS?

From what I've heard so far there seems to be bit of a head in the sand attitude to this....

The requirement to self adjust has gone with the WHS. So whatever the computers says is your Handicap Index on the day you play that is the correct H.I..

 

[Springveldt]

It isn’t officially run - it is run by the roll-up organiser and he has no standing in the club. And as it is a rollup and played for fun within any group of three or four we can gives putts...though we do so with consideration of all others playing in the individual stableford. So no stupid gimmes. We also run our own rollup handicap adjustment system so many of us play in the rollup off a lower handicap than our official handicap.

We use the club system primarily to reserve the tee times that the club had agreed that we can have. And the easiest way of doing that and capturing our scores is setting the rollup up as a competition in the context of our system and then we can use the app to return our scores as we cannot all hang around while all the 10 rollup groups come in.

From my understanding if you get a handicap adjustment for the rollup then it will be included in your initial handicap index if it’s in the last 20 rounds. Only qualifying rounds are included in your initial calculation.

 

[rulefan]

From my understanding if you get a handicap adjustment for the rollup then it will be (?) included in your initial handicap index if it’s in the last 20 rounds. Only qualifying rounds are included in your initial calculation.

CONGU does not currently accept rollup scores.

 

[Springveldt]

CONGU does not currently accept rollup scores.

They are entering their scores into the clubs software, so if they get handicap adjustments then it would be a qualifier, right? No handicap adjustment would indicate it’s not a qualifier and would be ignored.

 

[rulefan]

They are entering their scores into the clubs software, so if they get handicap adjustments then it would be a qualifier, right? No handicap adjustment would indicate it’s not a qualifier and would be ignored.

If they are using the club software to enter scores for a 'competition', the competition would have to be set up as a qualifier or a non qualifier. Where the sores are qualifying scores or nor depends on that status assigned to the competition. Only those scores from qualifying comps will be used the the transition.
The point is that CONGU does not yet allow for non-official (ie not run by the Committee) competitions to be deemed as qualifiers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rule 2.1 a (iii)
Last paragraph

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their
intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an
authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

Is the important word that which I have highlighted. So if the handicap Committee does not consider a member entering our roll-up as pre-registering then the rollup comp remains a non-qualifier. The fact that we use the club system to run our rollup comp is therefore irrelevant.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

From my understanding if you get a handicap adjustment for the rollup then it will be included in your initial handicap index if it’s in the last 20 rounds. Only qualifying rounds are included in your initial calculation.

...and so if our rollup comps are not considered qualifying rounds then any rollup handicap adjustment is irrelevant.

Note that the handicap adjustment we apply is nothing to do with the score the players shoot. So for example I can play to any number over my handicap (the number is irrelevant) yet win the rollup. The winners handicap is cut 0.1 for every £1 won - so if I win say £16 from the roll-up pot then I get cut 1.6 off my exact club handicap. So in effect 2 shots. Such handicap adjustments could never be included in a handicap index calculation.

 

[Springveldt]

If they are using the club software to enter scores for a 'competition', the competition would have to be set up as a qualifier or a non qualifier. Where the sores are qualifying scores or nor depends on that status assigned to the competition. Only those scores from qualifying comps will be used the the transition.
The point is that CONGU does not yet allow for non-official (ie not run by the Committee) competitions to be deemed as qualifiers.

That's what I was getting at, obviously in a poor way.

I've just calculated my initial WHS index which comes out at 7.6 if the CSS is used (I believe this is what is being used) or 7.7 if it's the course rating. I think that gives me a course handicap of 9 for my course depending on how the rounding is done for course handicap. My course has a slope of 139 so the course rating index of 7.7 works out at 9.47, if that is rounded to the nearest whole number then it is 9, but if they round to 1 decimal place first, then to the nearest number it would be 10 (9.5 to 1 dp, then 10 to whole number). CSS based index of 7.6 gives me a course handicap of 9 which is the same as my current CONGU handicap of 9.1

I've got a differential of 8.2 dropping off with my next round but the next counting differential doesn't drop off for 5 rounds (which is a 5.7 so I need a really good round there), so I've got a few rounds to get a decent score in again. Going to be interesting with this new system if you are tracking your handicap as some weeks will feel like you have a free shot at lowering your handicap with no risk of going up, others will feel like you need a good round if one of your best differentials are about to fall off.

 

[jim8flog]

CONGU does not currently accept rollup scores.

However they currently expect them to be used when carrying out the Annual review.

(1) Which system is simpler collating a years worth of scores and reviewing them
(2) Allowing a player to submit each score as it is produced.

However I also presume all previous edicts from England Golf and CONGU relating to the UHS are null and void when the WHS comes in.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If they are using the club software to enter scores for a 'competition', the competition would have to be set up as a qualifier or a non qualifier. Where the sores are qualifying scores or nor depends on that status assigned to the competition. Only those scores from qualifying comps will be used the the transition.
The point is that CONGU does not yet allow for non-official (ie not run by the Committee) competitions to be deemed as qualifiers.

I will check that our organiser intends to make sure that our roll-up comp is set up in the system as a non-qualifier. Sounds like that's all that needs to happen and we are sorted and there will be no issue or doubt about or whether or not our rollup is included in WHS. We can make sure that it isn't.

 

[Springveldt]

...and so if our rollup comps are not considered qualifying rounds then any rollup handicap adjustment is irrelevant.

Note that the handicap adjustment we apply is nothing to do with the score the players shoot. So for example I can play to any number over my handicap (the number is irrelevant) yet win the rollup. The winners handicap is cut 0.1 for every £1 won - so if I win say £16 from the roll-up pot then I get cut 1.6 off my exact club handicap. So in effect 2 shots. Such handicap adjustments could never be included in a handicap index calculation.

Sorry, when I said handicap adjustment I was meaning your CONGU handicap. I would assume only scores that are marked as qualifiers (and thus your CONGU handicap gets adjusted) will count towards your initial WHS index.

 

[rosecott]

I will check that our organiser intends to make sure that our roll-up comp is set up in the system as a non-qualifier. Sounds like that's all that needs to happen and we are sorted and there will be no issue or doubt about or whether or not our rollup is included in WHS. We can make sure that it isn't.

I would be interested to know how your handicap/competition software copes with your "unofficial" handicap adjustments.

 

[rulefan]

Is the important word that which I have highlighted. So if the handicap Committee does not consider a member entering our roll-up as pre-registering then the rollup comp remains a non-qualifier. The fact that we use the club system to run our rollup comp is therefore irrelevant.

Provided the competition has been set up correctly

Rule 2.1 a (iii) Last paragraph only relates to WHS. It is not a CONGU option.