World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

Does the United States have these differences at the moment? If so, how does your matrix look on the first tee?

I'm not in the US but as far as I know they still have a straightforward HI to CH conversion board. I can't why see a 85%, 90%, 95% handicap conversion couldn't be on the scorecard as they often used to be.

re 4BBB Match play knockouts, with a late tee time after the shop has closed, for example.)

I'm sure the ISVs will be producing apps for your phone.

 

[JohnnyDee]

Oh heck! What have I started here?

As is so often the case with golfing authorities and rules - it's all as clear as mud.

I'm sure before the kick-in date arrives all the wrinkles will have been ironed out, but for now and as thankfully I'm just a simple foot soldier these days, I shall just start bunging the cards in come March and hope it all works like clockwork come October / November.

Where's the bar? My head hurts.

 

[nickjdavis]

A question that will stymie them is:

CONGU will calculate the Course Handicap as
CH = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating / 113)
Whilst the rest of the world (Europe, US, Canada, Australia, South Africa ...) will use
CH = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating / 113) + (Course Rating - Par)
Why ?

I haven't been able to get a comprehensible answer yet.

Interesting....I'm pretty certain they quoted the second formula for calculation of Course Handicap!!!

It certainly drew gasps and looks of utter bewilderment when it came up on the screen.

 

[rulefan]

Interesting....I'm pretty certain they quoted the second formula for calculation of Course Handicap!!!

It certainly drew gasps and looks of utter bewilderment when it came up on the screen.

Who did the presentation? The County or a club member? They must have been using the wrong slideshow. I did a County presentation last Friday and am looking at the England Golf powerpoint show now. (CR-Par) is not in the formula.

 

[mefromhere]

Does anyone know what the pro-rata formula is for those who don't have 20 rounds in the last 2 years is please?

 

[BubbaP]

......

Apologies if all this has previously been posted but I was unable to find it.

There's a change a-comin'

Sorry JD, that did make me smile, thought we'd had almost as many WHS threads as Brexit threads! ??

Still, clearly there is plenty of mileage in it, and it's only January ?

 

[duncan mackie]

Does anyone know what the pro-rata formula is for those who don't have 20 rounds in the last 2 years is please?

Following your first 54 holes worth of scores your handicap index will be allocated, then each time you add a new score it will be recalculated using an adjusted calculation to give you an Index equivalent to that of the Best 8 from 20 principle. Further information will follow later...

Basically the precise formulae hasn't been published, and might not be! It could be as simple as populating the system with 8 x initial allocation and letting it run from there.

In the same way the transitional calculation details haven't been published (nor the 2 year cut off specified) and may, or may not, involve a weighted average (by number of scores), simple average, etc

The good news is that you will need to need to know - your handicap index will always be what's published on the CDH each morning, the end.

 

[rulefan]

Does anyone know what the pro-rata formula is for those who don't have 20 rounds in the last 2 years is please?

As for an initial handicap allocation. Using CSS for the differential

 

[OLgolfer]

As for an initial handicap allocation. Using CSS for the differential

So going backwards for the 20 rounds will they adjust the scores based on slope etc, or just take the gross scores? Does that make sense?

 

[rulefan]

So going backwards for the 20 rounds will they adjust the scores based on slope etc, or just take the gross scores? Does that make sense?

They will take slope into account.
They will first determine the WHS Course Handicap for the round using slope and then calculate the WHS differential by 'de-sloping'.
Basically as if WHS was in force on the day.
But instead of using a PCC adjustment is uses the CSS originally applicable for the round

 

[duncan mackie]

So going backwards for the 20 rounds will they adjust the scores based on slope etc, or just take the gross scores? Does that make sense?

The question makes sense but the answer would quickly become a chicken and egg argument if they went beyond the existing net differential and associated handicap records.

 

[Siolag]

Sorry if this has been covered, but is there a minimum number of rounds that are required in a year under the new system? I haven't seen anything.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry if this has been covered, but is there a minimum number of rounds that are required in a year under the new system? I haven't seen anything.

No.

There isn't a minimum number currently either; only rules around the concept of a competition status, which may, or may not have any relevance to the competitions you enter! WHS doesn't have that, or categories.

 

[duncan mackie]

They will take slope into account.
They will first determine the WHS Course Handicap for the round using slope and then calculate the WHS differential by 'de-sloping'.
Basically as if WHS was in force on the day.
But instead of using a PCC adjustment is uses the CSS originally applicable for the round

This sounds like madness - at what point do you establish a handicap index to base the slope figures for your subsequent calculations in respect of each player?
Surely slope is on both sides of the equation and can be ignored for the purposes of the past?

 

[nickjdavis]

Who did the presentation? The County or a club member? They must have been using the wrong slideshow. I did a County presentation last Friday and am looking at the England Golf powerpoint show now. (CR-Par) is not in the formula.

County.

The presentation document should be shared with attendees in the next few days. i'll check to see if my memory wasnt playing tricks on me when I get it.

 

[Siolag]

No.

There isn't a minimum number currently either; only rules around the concept of a competition status, which may, or may not have any relevance to the competitions you enter! WHS doesn't have that, or categories.

Thanks for that. I have a (c) on HowdidIdo so presumably that's sufficient for any comps I play in? I fully expect to play in most of my clubs medals this year and therefore will have no issues with keeping that status.

 

[rulefan]

This sounds like madness -
(1) at what point do you establish a handicap index to base the slope figures for your subsequent calculations in respect of each player?
(2) Surely slope is on both sides of the equation and can be ignored for the purposes of the past?

(1) The starting point for the transition calculation is the 20th oldest record in the CDH (or if you haven't got 20, the oldest there is). A handicap index is established after three scores have been processed (see table in post #28)

The system takes that score as if you haven't got a handicap and calculates a Score Differential. ie SD = (113/Slope) x (Gross - (CR - PCC)) (NB (CR - PCC) is CSS)
It then does that for the next two oldest. After 3 scores an 'initial' Handicap Index is allocated according to the table.

The next score in turn is then processed (and sloped) using the (now calculateable) Course Handicap. CH = HI x (Slope / 113). The Score Differential is determined as above (including de-sloping).
Each newer score is processed in turn and the player's Handicap Index adjusted as appropriate according to the table or the average of the best 8.

(2) Sloping and de-sloping is necessary because CH is calculated using Slope but HI needs the score to be de-sloped.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks for that. I have a (c) on HowdidIdo so presumably that's sufficient for any comps I play in? I fully expect to play in most of my clubs medals this year and therefore will have no issues with keeping that status.

You won't in fact keep it as it goes completely in November

 

[JohnnyDee]

Sorry JD, that did make me smile, thought we'd had almost as many WHS threads as Brexit threads! ??

Still, clearly there is plenty of mileage in it, and it's only January ?

I thought there must have been but I haven't been on here much of late. I may have used the wrong search terms it seems. Honest.

Mind you and in my defence M'lud, it was because we got an email from the club after a very long silence that I posted.

 

[duncan mackie]

(1) The starting point for the transition calculation is the 20th oldest record in the CDH (or if you haven't got 20, the oldest there is). A handicap index is establishes after three scores have been processed (see table in post #28)

The system takes that score as if you haven't got a handicap and calculates a Score Differential. ie SD = (113/Slope) x (Gross - (CR - PCC)) (NB (CR - PCC) is CSS)
It then does that for the next two oldest. After 3 scores an 'initial' Handicap Index is allocated according to the table.

The next score in turn is then processed (and sloped) using the (now calculateable) Course Handicap. CH = HI x (Slope / 113). The Score Differential is determined as above (including de-sloping).
Each newer score is processed in turn and the player's Handicap Index adjusted as appropriate according to the table or the average of the best 8.

(2) Sloping and de-sloping is necessary because CH is calculated using Slope but HI needs the score to be de-sloped.

Thank you for that detailed explanation.

Obviously going through a complete restructure of the last 20 has implications regarding the question previously discussed 're a 2 year cut off. Having reviewed all of the various documents from the last 18months I can see where EG have continually referenced a 2 year period, but in the context of this calculation that has massive ramifications. As you are aware the average number of Q scores on the handicap records for those with current handicaps is, shall we say, low. Using the above process with a starting point of 2018, say, and basing it on a total of 6 scores will produce a very different result from that produced from a full 20 (that may go back 6 or more years).
Another issue that we will certainly face is that we do not have slope ratings for all ofnthe tees upon which historic scores are based - I cannot believe that we are alone in this! Clearly we could fudge that, but then again why go through such a detailed process with more fudge data? I say more because the application of a CH stableford score without knowing whether it would, or would not have resulted in a different score is, inherently, fudge (the general practice is for people to blob a hole rather than hole out for 0 points leaving uncertainty as to the impact of additional shots in practice).

Sorry to be a bit negative.

Anyway, I will run a few sample calculations to compare, as best I can given the above, the system output with a simple use of the existing handicap and associated SD over the last 20 as well as the true implications to applying a cut off and the system calls. Should be fun ?