World Cup Qualifiers

[Piece]

So again I'll ask the same question that doesn't seem to be getting answered

Why do other countries with a smaller pool of players playing in lower leagues with less talented players seem to get further in tournaments ?

The England team today all had key players from top clubs

Except Hart now The back four all starters from CL Clubs , all the starting line up are starters at big clubs in the Prem. Then there is key players from the Prem League winners in Vardy and Drinkwater

The England squad has more ability in it that other teams that have progressed further - it has been poorly managed for a good number of years

As for the youth - during the summer the England U21 won the Toulon Comp , the under 20's into the Semi's of their comp

Far too quickly people dismiss talented English players - have the reason is because fossil managers don't have a clue what to do with creative players like Rashford or Barkley , they are far too scared to let players express themselves - Sterling is a classic case , Pep arrives and rebuilds his shattered confidence and gets him showing the talent that made City pay £50 mil - goes to England and it's the same old same old - give him and players like Lallana , Barkely , Rashford etc the license to express themselves on a pitch. Tonight why when going away to play a team that was always going to sit deep did they play Dier as a sitting mid meaning Rooney dropping to halfway line to pick the ball up which then leaves Kane isolated again. They didn't need Dier - put Drinkwater alongside Barkley , they can control the game and let the guys in front be fluid , Walker is another issue at RB - he is quick and that's it , he can't go past people or cross the ball so why not bring in Clynne who can go past people

It needs a brave bright fresh young manager to play the players properly and get the best out of their talents but for that it needs the FA to be brave as well and that's never going to happen

There is players that can take England to quarter finals and maybe further which is a good level to be at.

Blaming the Prem just masks it's all - the Prem wasn't around when England failed in the 70's or in the Euro's in the 80's or 90's or WC they failed to qualify for

In my lifetime they have had two bright managers who were willing to try something different and if it wasn't working they tried something different - Bobby and Venables , England need someone of their ability regardless of where they come from.

Great post, totally agree.

 

[Slime]

I'm not sure what everyone was expecting..
It's basically the same team from 3 months ago, the manager's been in place for a month and has had the players for less than a week...
Not much time to effect any real change....

Spot on.

I actually enjoyed the game, especially seeing a manager with passion.
As for Rooney, too many people decided he played badly before the game had even started!
I actually thought he played well, but, as no-one ahead of him was showing any movement, he was left between a rock and a hard place.
That changed when Alli came on, thankfully.
Henderson, Rose, Kane and Sterling were all very poor, but Walcott was just shocking.
Lallana was excellent and I was so pleased for him when he scored.
Alli was also very good and must surely start in our next game.
When Slovakia had that thug sent off, nothing changed ....................... they still played with ten men behind the ball and did defend very well.
It's never easy trying to break down a team of ten defenders.
What England needed was someone with pace who is happy to run at defenders all day long.
I think we needed Rashford, oh, and Alli on from the start.
Happy for Lallane and happy for Big Sam.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Spot on.

I actually enjoyed the game, especially seeing a manager with passion.
As for Rooney, too many people decided he played badly before the game had even started!
I actually thought he played well, but, as no-one ahead of him was showing any movement, he was left between a rock and a hard place.
That changed when Alli came on, thankfully.
Henderson, Rose, Kane and Sterling were all very poor, but Walcott was just shocking.
Lallana was excellent and I was so pleased for him when he scored.
Alli was also very good and must surely start in our next game.
When Slovakia had that thug sent off, nothing changed ....................... they still played with ten men behind the ball and did defend very well.
It's never easy trying to break down a team of ten defenders.
What England needed was someone with pace who is happy to run at defenders all day long.
I think we needed Rashford, oh, and Alli on from the start.
Happy for Lallane and happy for Big Sam.

The question I guess is Allardyce going to be prepared to let the younger players play. Hodgson did to a degree in qualifiers and we looked reasonable (against a not very strong group admittedly) and then reverted to type in France. Is the new man going to go for pace and movement or will it be a cautious, safety first and take the 1-0 approach going forward.

I accept that with so little time and a qualifier as the first game, there was a need to find a way to get it done, but I didn't think it was a good performance and players of the calibre we had against ten men should have found a way to break them down. An interesting side fact, courtesy of SSN, we've now had 47 attempts at goal in the two matches vs Slovakia and scored once

 

[sawtooth]

Spot on.

I actually enjoyed the game, especially seeing a manager with passion.
As for Rooney, too many people decided he played badly before the game had even started!
I actually thought he played well, but, as no-one ahead of him was showing any movement, he was left between a rock and a hard place.
That changed when Alli came on, thankfully.
Henderson, Rose, Kane and Sterling were all very poor, but Walcott was just shocking.
Lallana was excellent and I was so pleased for him when he scored.
Alli was also very good and must surely start in our next game.
When Slovakia had that thug sent off, nothing changed ....................... they still played with ten men behind the ball and did defend very well.
It's never easy trying to break down a team of ten defenders.
What England needed was someone with pace who is happy to run at defenders all day long.
I think we needed Rashford, oh, and Alli on from the start.
Happy for Lallane and happy for Big Sam.

He came on with 20 mins to go. Did you expect him to score a hatrick?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Surely Big Sam can play the old "It's not my team yet"and then obviously he needs time for the team to gel.
Or is that just League managers that get time?

Yes just league managers can use that old chestnut. He has an open book of players to pick from.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Why mention Barkley or Rashford when they weren't in the squad?
He made no changes at half time so must've been happy with the starting 11, once Skrtel went why didn't he bring Vardy on, thought the whole performance was awful and saw very little difference from any of the players who played in the Euros.
I posted this morning that he'd only met the squad 5 days ago and he was on a no win situation tonight.

He'll be relieved to get the first game behind him and the next 3-4 games I would hope to see him start to get the formation and the players he wants to play in that formation right.

If they're the next biggest team in our group then in all honesty I'm not sure we'll be any further forward till we (hopefully) get to Russia.

 

[ger147]

Good start for Scotland, can't ask for much more than that. It might only be Malta but those "only Malta" games have long been the ones we slip up in, so great to get off to a good start this time around.

 

[sawtooth]

Yes just league managers can use that old chestnut. He has an open book of players to pick from.

He still needs time to find his best 11 and formation though, I would like to see him try as many players as possible then decide on the best 11 and stick to it.

IMO he needs to do things differently and make his own mind up on who plays well together instead of just opting for the peoples favorites.

Ultimately if the players arent good enough then there is a limit to what he can do anyway.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Yes just league managers can use that old chestnut. He has an open book of players to pick from.

But all have to be English 🙄

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Malta up next and then Slovenia and I don't think we have any friendlies in between. I can see some changes for the Malta game but would imagine he'll play a similar side to today for Slovenia away. Once he gets the friendlies then he can begin to experiment and introduce different players and tactics. As someone wanting us to get to Moscow I'll take a good win vs Malta and another 1-0 away win. I do want to see an improved performance though.

 

[richy]

Why do people feel the need to leap to the defence of players that play for their club side. No one is slagging of your beloved club so calm down.
If a player has been rubbish then call it, regardless of whether they play for your side or not. When you defend them you just come across clueless.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

There is players that can take England to quarter finals and maybe further which is a good level to be at.

Blaming the Prem just masks it's all - the Prem wasn't around when England failed in the 70's or in the Euro's in the 80's or 90's or WC they failed to qualify for

In my lifetime they have had two bright managers who were willing to try something different and if it wasn't working they tried something different - Bobby and Venables , England need someone of their ability regardless of where they come from.

Rightly or wrongly Rashford is not starting at Man U and Barkley has only been a regular starter for three games, under Martinez he was in & out.

As for the back four being at CL clubs just how many CL games have Walker, Stones & Rose played in their careers.

We can all suggest changes from within the squad, personally I would not have Henderson within 100 miles of an England side, but the fact remains the pool is very shallow.

The Premier League started in 1992 and England have struggled ever since. The difficulties of the 1970's and 80's could be attributed to the post- Ramsey difficulties created by Revie and were not arrested until the appointment of Robson.

When the PL was launched it was claimed it would benefit the national team but nobody could ever claim this has been the case. Rather it has further divorced the club game from the internationals which would appear to satisfy most fans of the so called big clubs.

BTW bright young managers are not always the answer. Remember Brenda?

 

[Old Skier]

So again I'll ask the same question that doesn't seem to be getting answered

Why do other countries with a smaller pool of players playing in lower leagues with less talented players seem to get further in tournaments ?

The England team today all had key players from top clubs

Except Hart now The back four all starters from CL Clubs , all the starting line up are starters at big clubs in the Prem. Then there is key players from the Prem League winners in Vardy and Drinkwater

The England squad has more ability in it that other teams that have progressed further - it has been poorly managed for a good number of years

As for the youth - during the summer the England U21 won the Toulon Comp , the under 20's into the Semi's of their comp

Far too quickly people dismiss talented English players - have the reason is because fossil managers don't have a clue what to do with creative players like Rashford or Barkley , they are far too scared to let players express themselves - Sterling is a classic case , Pep arrives and rebuilds his shattered confidence and gets him showing the talent that made City pay £50 mil - goes to England and it's the same old same old - give him and players like Lallana , Barkely , Rashford etc the license to express themselves on a pitch. Tonight why when going away to play a team that was always going to sit deep did they play Dier as a sitting mid meaning Rooney dropping to halfway line to pick the ball up which then leaves Kane isolated again. They didn't need Dier - put Drinkwater alongside Barkley , they can control the game and let the guys in front be fluid , Walker is another issue at RB - he is quick and that's it , he can't go past people or cross the ball so why not bring in Clynne who can go past people

It needs a brave bright fresh young manager to play the players properly and get the best out of their talents but for that it needs the FA to be brave as well and that's never going to happen

There is players that can take England to quarter finals and maybe further which is a good level to be at.

Blaming the Prem just masks it's all - the Prem wasn't around when England failed in the 70's or in the Euro's in the 80's or 90's or WC they failed to qualify for

In my lifetime they have had two bright managers who were willing to try something different and if it wasn't working they tried something different - Bobby and Venables , England need someone of their ability regardless of where they come from.

Good to see your now taking a big interest in the national squad.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'll refer people to page 1. I should have gone to see strippers after all. Bog awful match, even seen through beer goggles.

I've learnt that a 5 o clock match means that in a pub:

You meet single blokes who have been drinking all afternoon. They either want to fight, go comatose or hug you. None are great options.

Rubbish football is still rubbish.

You meet people who play golf and so you can still talk golf nonsense despite being half cut. I'm now playing in a pub golf society day despite not being part of the society. How did that happen? Beer!!

Playing piggy in the middle of a split is not fun.

I can't drink more than 3 pints of beer and not struggle or suffer. What a woos.

Next qualifier I'm gan the Toon 😁

 

[Blue in Munich]

He came on with 20 mins to go. Did you expect him to score a hatrick?

Being able to control a football whilst on the run, being able to time a run to stay onside and hitting the target when presented with an opportunity would be a good starting point.

 

[sawtooth]

Why do people feel the need to leap to the defence of players that play for their club side. No one is slagging of your beloved club so calm down.
If a player has been rubbish then call it, regardless of whether they play for your side or not. When you defend them you just come across clueless.

Its clueless not realising how difficult it is to come on as a sub with 20 mins to go. Maybe some people just havent played the game before I dont know.

 

[sawtooth]

Being able to control a football whilst on the run, being able to time a run to stay onside and hitting the target when presented with an opportunity would be a good starting point.

Case in point.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

He still needs time to find his best 11 and formation though, I would like to see him try as many players as possible then decide on the best 11 and stick to it.

IMO he needs to do things differently and make his own mind up on who plays well together instead of just opting for the peoples favorites.

Ultimately if the players arent good enough then there is a limit to what he can do anyway.

Should've just stuck with Hodgson then, the FA would've saved a load of dosh.

Sam will get time to try different tactics, I'd just like to see players in their natural positions.

Leicester won the league with good players, not world class or top top top top top top players.

Greece won the euros with a squad who played a particular way and every single player knew their jobs.

Portugal won the it this year with a decent squad, not much better than England squad apart from Ronaldo. OK they had Ronaldo but he wasn't exactly on top form, he wasn't the main reason they won it.

 

[Papas1982]

So again I'll ask the same question that doesn't seem to be getting answered

Why do other countries with a smaller pool of players playing in lower leagues with less talented players seem to get further in tournaments ?

The England team today all had key players from top clubs

Except Hart now The back four all starters from CL Clubs , all the starting line up are starters at big clubs in the Prem. Then there is key players from the Prem League winners in Vardy and Drinkwater

The England squad has more ability in it that other teams that have progressed further - it has been poorly managed for a good number of years

As for the youth - during the summer the England U21 won the Toulon Comp , the under 20's into the Semi's of their comp

Far too quickly people dismiss talented English players - have the reason is because fossil managers don't have a clue what to do with creative players like Rashford or Barkley , they are far too scared to let players express themselves - Sterling is a classic case , Pep arrives and rebuilds his shattered confidence and gets him showing the talent that made City pay £50 mil - goes to England and it's the same old same old - give him and players like Lallana , Barkely , Rashford etc the license to express themselves on a pitch. Tonight why when going away to play a team that was always going to sit deep did they play Dier as a sitting mid meaning Rooney dropping to halfway line to pick the ball up which then leaves Kane isolated again. They didn't need Dier - put Drinkwater alongside Barkley , they can control the game and let the guys in front be fluid , Walker is another issue at RB - he is quick and that's it , he can't go past people or cross the ball so why not bring in Clynne who can go past people

It needs a brave bright fresh young manager to play the players properly and get the best out of their talents but for that it needs the FA to be brave as well and that's never going to happen

There is players that can take England to quarter finals and maybe further which is a good level to be at.

Blaming the Prem just masks it's all - the Prem wasn't around when England failed in the 70's or in the Euro's in the 80's or 90's or WC they failed to qualify for

In my lifetime they have had two bright managers who were willing to try something different and if it wasn't working they tried something different - Bobby and Venables , England need someone of their ability regardless of where they come from.

Maybe, just maybe the common denominator isn't the poor selection of managers. But in fact the over privileged players?

Most of our players aren't the stars of their teams. And if they are they still don't have much experience in the top tiers of continental football.

Maybe, we spend to long lauding our players as stars when really it's their European teammates who make them look better. So, they get in into their heads that their superstars and can waltz through games.

The he reason that lesser teams have out performed us is because they put a shift in, something our player seem to be unwilling to do of late. Think back to the likes of nice and butcher with blood all over their shirts. These players earned their places and their lifestyles and wages and progressed through teams. Now a young player would rather be on a bench earning their money than getting starts and progressing.

Hunger is our biggest weakness, and the smaller nations players have more desire than ours and it clearly shows. They don't play better football, they don't generally have pundits praising their style, but their hunger and passion is 2nd to none.

 

[williamalex1]

Good start for Scotland, can't ask for much more than that. It might only be Malta but those "only Malta" games have long been the ones we slip up in, so great to get off to a good start this time around.

Yippee , now bring on the big boys [ Slovakia ] :rofl: